The New Unending Flyers thread

[zambonir]

Hard to imagine how or why a team at the top of the draft/lottery would not want that player for themselves. They might be able to trade into the lottery or Top 5 (though if memory serves they couldn't even do that last year) but if there's a clear #1 (or even #3) probably ain't happening.

Let's just hope Michkov is this good, and gets here. And eventually the time actually will come to trade some picks and youth for an established (but not aging) star.

At least we're not talking about Cutter Gauthier or Carter Hart.

[bigegypt0417]

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/philadelphia-flyers/latest-news/flyers-broker-hanifin-trade-become-middle-man-for-golden-knights

[zambonir]

So that essentially replaces the pick they sent to COL

[Austinfan]

Hextall had (8) 1sts, (6) 2nds in five years.

So far, Briere will have (6) 1sts, (6) 2nds in his first three seasons with a good shot at making the POs without signing a major FA.

Fletcher deserves some credit, as the G trade landed Tiippett, Barkey and FLA's 1st in this draft.
Of course, Fletcher also traded a 1st, (2) 2nds, 3rd and 4th to land Risto and TDA.
And a 2nd comes from Hextall drafting JOB in the first, who wasn't worth signing.

Briere is looking like a stroke of genius, he's patient, understands analytics, knows how to build consensus in the organization, is focused on his long term plan, appreciates the importance of player development but also wants to field a competitive team.

[Docs]

Fletcher deserves some credit

No thank you. Also don’t forget giving up a second to get rid of ghost before giving up a second a third and a fourth to acquire a player that comps like ghost but is not great in the locker room.

(I realize you are just documenting where briere’s extra picks originated - I’d like to give Briere credit for not squandering those additional assets before i give Fletcher credit for anything )

[zambonir]

Fletcher did what he was hired to do, it's unfortunate neither he nor ownership's kitchen cabinet couldn't see that goal was no longer attainable prior to '21. And '22 was even worse. But don't forget Briere was already in the front office prior to '22, and there's also a reason they kept Flahr (who runs the drafts).

All GMs make mistakes, Fletcher's were less about individual players or the price paid than his very premise that the team was still just a few players (or healthy players) away from contending again. But it's always ownership.

Though, it's some bitter consolation that I don't think we can look back and say things would have worked out better if Hextall had been allowed to try and finish his vision. It wasn't really working and he obviously isn't a good manager (but hey, he probably learned that from Clarke and Holmgren originally).

[Austinfan]

Hextall never committed to a rebuild even when given the green light by Snider.
Traded Coburn and Kimmo at the TDL, but that was a no brainer.
A few deals for 3rd rd picks, dumping some salary.
Made the POs on a hot streak by Mason, who imploded in the playoffs.
Then went out and paid JVR 5x7, extended Voracek 8x8.25 (both with much lower cap).
Drafted Patrick w/o proper due diligence, then traded Schenn for 2017, 2018 1sts (Frost, Farabee).

Fletcher was given a mandate by Holmgren to win now, Homgren missed two opportunities to rebuild, after the Carter/Richards trade and after the implosion in 2018. Fletcher started well, overpaid Hayes (but with a rising cap, didn't know COVID was going to happen), 2nd and 3rd for Braun (got a 3rd back two years later), Gudas for Niskanen.
After a one year jump under AV, AV went AWOL and the team spiraled downhill.
After 2020, should have started to rebuild, but "rebuild" was a dirty word to Scott so Fletcher tried to patch and failed miserably.

The best thing about hiring Torts was he pulled the bandaid off and declared the Emperor had no clothes - said the team needed to rebuild and would take as long or longer than his contract. Briere had been hired to replace Fletcher (Camillo had groomed him for that role) and was in place to take over after Fletcher screwed up the TDL and fans wanted his head.

[bigegypt0417]

I'm impressed with Briere and what seems like a new organizational philosophy that gets buy-in. The assets he's accumulated will make him a player for top line talent that becomes eligible.

I'm hoping this story ends a little better than the process.

[zambonir]

It feels very similar to the Phillies. One step forward, two steps back, and now it looks like real steps forward again.

And with a similar stroke of luck in terms of having unexpectedly good people already on board (Thomson/Fuld for the Phillies Briere/Torts). Easy to already forget how unpopular Torts hire was for many, and also how unexciting it was that the new regime was still led by two former Flyers players & Comcast employees.

[bigegypt0417]

Obviously just some trade machine scenarios but still interesting to think about...

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/ottawa-senators/latest-news/trade-deadline-2024-three-trade-possibilities-for-senators-defenceman-jakob-chychrun

[Austinfan]

Chychrun is talented but as injury prone as Drysdale, though he's managed to stay healthy this season.
Would be a good addition, but I don't think Briere is going to give Drysdale and a 1st for the privilege of giving Chychrun a big contract.

[zambonir]

Certainly you don't pay the price for Chychrun if you don't intend to re-sign him. But he's not a free agent this year. And you'd get Risto off the books(or at least the roster) before Chychrun's new contract would start. But I think it's just not a match because Ottawa is only willing to trade him for a truly great offer (much like the Flyers with Laughton) and the Flyers are not going to make a truly great offer.

But if you start talking Drysdale rather than another pick it's not something to dismiss out of hand, I don't think. That would be the action of a team that really does want to make the playoffs this year (and next) though.

Question on that front is really, what might Briere give up in the next 48 hours for a defenseman or back-up goalie?

[Aquapong]

With the deadline moves and coaching changes that have been made so far, it feels like the Caps, Devils, and Pens are fading. The Pens will likely unload Guentzel by tomorrow. Even though they all have games in hand over us, they are still play each other a few times and even with 2 points in all of the games none of them can catch up to us right now. We have a devastating schedule for the next 3 weeks with the Sharks being the only team we play that isn’t in the playoff hunt. We’ve got to keep scratching out points.

The team I’m worried about sneaking up on us is the Islanders.

[zambonir]

Well, they are the best team in Philadelphia right now in any case! (At least until Opening Day.)

[Austinfan]

Not much. If Drysdale and Risto are out indefinitely, maybe a late pick for a fill-in RHD, though he'd have to be significantly better than Staal and Belpedio.

[zambonir]

I think they are out indefinitely yeah (or at least for the next 3-4 weeks).

But a 4th or 5th probably doesn't, like you say, get them much of an upgrade. Does a 3rd? And once you've thought about that, it's not out of the question to think about a move like Chychrun which makes this year's team better and still improves next year's team and possibly beyond. A longshot, certainly, but I can see the appeal as something that is not at all short-term.

[Docs]

Fletcher did what he was hired to do

Even if his job was to go out and compete, the complaint is that he was not very good at what he was doing because he overpaid for the players he acquired (and for the one he dumped).

All GMs make mistakes, Fletcher's were less about individual players or the price paid

I am specifically talking about the price paid in the Deangelo, Ghost & Ristolainen deals, as well as needing to dump salary because he took on Ellis. Even if you don't care about future draft picks, you have to recognize their value in the market and spend them wisely. His moves did not fit together, and if he had a plan it didn't make any sense to me. I believe he should have done better with the resources he had & the direction he was given. In my view, the wheels came off in the summer of 2021.

[Aquapong]

For those wondering (like me), Bonk’s OHL season will likely extend beyond our regular season, so it’s not likely he’ll get thrown into the deep end since he’s already on his ELC and we now have a D shortage.

[Aquapong]

Several D and G were placed on waivers. One of them is our buddy Tony Deangelo. Maybe a reunion in the works

William Lagesson from the Leafs could be a stopgap for this season. I’m not sure anyone else is really an upgrade.

[zambonir]

Sounds like Briere is still hoping to trade Johanson now so he can go play somewhere. But I assume it would all have to work for the Flyers too.

The Flyers young blue line is about to be tested without Sean Walker and Nick...