The New Unending Flyers thread

Aquapong 2023-03-29 02:11:09 UTC #21

Hart will apparently miss some time with a lower body injury. Errson recalled. I thought Errson himself was injured 2x on Sunday when one of the Bears plowed him over on a rush and later when he got slashed. Both plays resulted in penalties on the Bears. Thankfully he was ok.

zambonir 2023-03-29 14:18:23 UTC #22

Geez, can't they bring in a journeyman goalie? Help them lose some NHL games while Errson gets the Phantoms into the playoffs?

Docs 2023-04-10 19:45:40 UTC #23

Flyers are reportedly not offering a contract to 2018 first rounder Jay O'Brien, who will become a free agent. Flyers will receive a 2nd round pick as compensation, according to Elliotte Friedman the second rounder will be in 2023 (19th pick in the round since he was 19th overall), however, I don't understand the timing since the deadline to sign him is Aug 15 - seems like a 2024 second rounder makes more sense.

In other news, with yesterday's loss the Flyers will not slide lower than the 7th slot pre-lottery. With two games remaining, the Flyers hold a 3 point lead over Montreal and 2 point lead over Arizona, so there's a slim chance that they move up to 6 or 5 slots - but that would require losing to both the worst team (Columbus) and second worst team (Chicago) and Mtl and/or Arizona getting points. Lottery odds not much better in either position, but of course the pick is better if you don't win the lottery.

Aquapong 2023-04-12 01:44:29 UTC #24

Ot win to finish off the home schedule. The G trade is looking pretty good right now. An emerging player and a first round pick still to come.

LegoDoom 2023-04-12 02:08:20 UTC #25

I will disagree. Giroux is pretty much a point per game player at 35 and Tippett is already 24. There is a good chance that Tippett won't even be part of the rebuild unless he's traded.

zambonir 2023-04-12 02:22:44 UTC #26

Well, Giroux was leaving or wouldn't be part of the rebuild and there was no trade market for him (given he was only going to go to one of two teams). But getting Tippett was definitely part of the "retool" not rebuild mistake, when they should have been getting picks. Still, I'd say Tippett has far exceeded his perceived value at the time of the trade, And they should probably still flip him but you can say that about just about the entire roster.

LegoDoom 2023-04-12 02:31:02 UTC #27

There is no trade market for a point per game player? I'll disagree. Tippett has been fine, but the franchise just realized Morgan Frost is a good player (and he's younger). Tippett won't be a part of the rebuild unless he's flipped, but I have doubts on his value.

Aquapong 2023-04-12 10:38:13 UTC #28

It’s rare a team gets a star back in a trade when trading an aging star. I’m happy with Tippet’s growth this year and hopefully he can continue to build on it. He was a bright spot in a dim season. He looks like he can be a good, maybe not great, player.

LegoDoom 2023-04-12 11:00:39 UTC #29

Tippett is fine. He has a very good shot and I'll take at least one elite tool in return, but he was an older prospect and after the dust settles he'll probably be traded for a 3rd/4th rounder before the team is any good.

Docs 2023-04-12 11:43:52 UTC #30

Giroux had a full no trade clause and only wanted to go to Florida. Reports are that Colorado had a better offer. G tied the club's hands and they did well considering he was a pending free agent with a full no trade clause and they didn't JVR him.

Good thing they can have more than one player on the team. I'm not sure I follow why Tippet wont' be around, he's only 24 and has 26 goals this year. If G is still effective at 35 when are we giving up on Tippet? How long is this rebuild? Should they have tried to get 2030 draft picks?

LegoDoom 2023-04-12 12:02:09 UTC #31

Giroux posted a 93 point season at 24 years old. Tippett is an ok player and only seems good because most of the team is not good.

And no, you don't need 2030 draft picks, but getting a draft pick and a player who is ~19 is obviously better for a rebuild than a 23 year old.

zambonir 2023-04-12 13:33:28 UTC #32

Right Giroux's NTC and the Flyers' eagerness to accomodate him reduced his market to two teams (if not one).

But I agree with LD. This is a 3-5 year rebuild and it likely makes more sense to trade Tippett than sign him to a problematic contract. They already have Sanheim until he's 35 in 2031 and Couts until 2030 when he's 37. If Tippett actually gets even better that just makes him more tradeable/less signable.

Heck, it's not even certain they will keep Carter Hart, who is also 24.

LegoDoom 2023-04-12 14:26:21 UTC #33

I know that they were handcuffed with Giroux trade. I don't remember if he wanted out, but I think I would have rather seen him play the rest of his career here rather than sign Risto to $5M a year.

Tippett is a valuable player, but not an impact player, and he will miss the rebuild. I just don't see him fetching a lot in a trade as a sub 50 point player at 24+

zambonir 2023-04-12 15:29:12 UTC #34

I don't recall if extension talks ended at some point, or never began. But I think both sides wanted him to be in the playoffs last season. They left the window cracked on the idea that he might re-sign and come back, but that was never too likely either, and just as well.

The real problem with having Tippett instead of a draft pick is he actually made this season's team better, because that was what Fletcher was trying to do, but it was not what the franchise needed.

LegoDoom 2023-04-12 15:34:46 UTC #35

All of this might be correct. I think the Flyers did right by Giroux, which is nice to see.

I agree on Tippett. I'm not the biggest fan, but he definitely won more games than the team needed to win. The team really needs to trade Provorov, which I don't want them to.

bkeich 2023-04-13 12:14:17 UTC #36

Have the Flyers officially been eliminated from the 2024, 25 and 26 playoffs yet or are we going to wait until they actually lose enough games?

There literally isn't a single player on this team that shouldn't be traded for draft picks. There is no core, it is a complete tear down and build (it isn't a rebuild, because there is no re-)

2029? 2032?

zambonir 2023-04-13 15:43:45 UTC #37

There literally are players on the team who shouldn't be traded though. Just not many of them, and nobody should be untouchable. They don't all have to be traded this off-season either. There's a limit on how many you can trade while picking up salary (three), and nobody is going to trade for Couts or Atkinson yet either.

Tippett, Hart, Frost, Cates, York, Farabee are still part of a core for now along with several of the Phantoms guys. Some of the untradeable players you can keep even though they are bad because you're not expecting to win (though Torts might not want some of them around). And you still have to have a roster. TK, Laughton, Provorov and Sanheim are where it gets interesting. All of them might be gone by 2025 but not all at once.

It's malpractice that they didn't try to rebuild this season and last trade deadline, and people have been fired for it. But it's also probably too late to step back and tank. It's pretty simple though, if you want to lean that way you trade Hart and the rest will follow.

Stockpiling 3rd and 5th rounders isn't really gonna fix anything. Make the bold trades if they can get you 1st and 2nds. But that's the Catch-22, the same lack of elite talent that isn't producing wins won't produce a trade return.

xogfog 2023-04-14 04:00:28 UTC #38

Well, they have Couts and Atkinson coming back next year, added to Tippett, TK, Frost, Farabee, Laughton, that's a pretty good start for your forwards, Allison, Cates, Brink and Foerster should also be back. That leaves one forward spot to fill. I think Hayes will be moved for next to nothing just to get him out of town, if you can move Hayes salary and with JVR coming off the books, you should be able to bring in a premier free agent forward.

As for the defense, who knows if Ryan Ellis is ever coming back, but at least on LTIR his salary is not on the books. I think Provorov could be moved. I think we are stuck with Ddangelo, Sanheim and Ristolainen, York will be back with a larger role and Attard will probably be on the team. Maybe Zamula will be there as well and it is possible that Andrae may make the team too..

As far as the Goalies, Hart, Sandstrom and Ersson are all under contract. I'd prefer Ersson over Sandstrom as the backup to Hart.

bkeich 2023-04-14 12:27:43 UTC #39

Returning essentially the same team (with Coots and Atkinson) and then subtracting whoever gets injured this time. Seems like a recipe for being a terrible team again.

I would literally trade anyone I could over a certain age (23?)since continuing to run this non-core out there ensures continued futility.

VoteForKalas 2023-04-14 12:54:11 UTC #40

xogfog mentions trading Hayes and, combined with JVR off the books, should allow for the signing of a more premium F to add to the mix.

IMO that should be a C since we do not know what will happen with Couts, will (hopefully) need to fortify the position after Hayes is moved and do not know if Frost can push for the #2 C job.

The alternative would be a premier D since I'd also work hard to move Risto and DeAngelo and maybe Provorov although I'm higher on him than many other fans. With the pipeline producing York this year and hopefully Zamula and Attard next, we should have options for #4-6 of the D corps, but still need that #1 which would allow Provorov to play with that person or slide down to the 2nd pair.

I guess I'm more optimistic about the state of the team, but rebuilding over 1-2 more years is definitely necessary. If Hayes, Risto, DeAngelo can be moved and that money used effectively to bring in a better C and/or D, that should help move the ball forward.

I love our G situation; it is the height of irony that when the Flyers finally have good goalie options, the rest of the team is in transition. I keep Hart and Ersson; better to have two guys pushing each other instead of signing another vet retread to back up.