The New New Unending Flyers thread

[LegoDoom]

If you have too many solid young forwards, you can always package them with draft picks in a deal for an upgrade.

You have already said that you want to target bottom 6 players on a good team who were pushed down because of the talent on the team. Why do you think it's easy to package bottom 6 forwards on a bad team to get a better player?

[Austinfan]

Different strokes for different folks.

The best value on offer sheets are RFAs on cap strapped teams who are blocked, so they'll cost more than their current role justifies for a PO team.

Same when a team trades a prospect with upside, if they're a PO caliber team, they want young talent back to fill out the bottom of the roster at low cost, if they're a bad team, they want young players and draft picks.

No different that a baseball team trading a young starter b/c he's too expensive, they'll want a replacement if they don't have one lined up, and/or some prospects with upside.

So a typical trade for a young center with top six potential might be a young center back, a 1st rd pick and another asset (2nd rd pick, "B prospect").

David Jiricek for Daemon Hunt ("B prospect), 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th rd picks.
DeBrincat for 1st, 4th, couple scrubs
Provorov for 1st, 2nd, plus
Chychrun for 1st, (2) 2nds
Hronek & 4th for 1st, 2nd
Hagel & (2) 4ths for (2) 1sts
Reinhart for 1st rd, Levi (G)

[Docs]

Do you think they should have kept what was at best a checked-out coach or at worst a poisoned locker room to openly tank?

Yes. Finishing the season on a high note will be meaningless next December. Getting a player with more upside is the goal. Can people exceed the expectations of their draft slot? Yes. But if the flyers drafted someone 10 picks ahead of where they are slotted we would be upset. So that argument that someone has the potential to exceed expectations is not valid when wishing for the best possible odds to secure a top player on a manageable contract without having to give up other assets. If they had the 4th pick they wouldn’t have to trade three of their picks.

As for the argument for depth - they need better top players period. The Phillies have Harper, wheeler, etc they have studs. I’m not saying it’s bad to have depth pieces but who do the flyers have besides mitchkov? They have no other studs. I want them to have studs on controllable contracts that don’t require them to give up other assets that can be turned into another lottery pick, whether that is giving up picks or salary cap with free agents.

[Austinfan]

Phillies have two "studs," Harper and Wheeler, rest of team are good players, mostly on value or overpay contracts.
There are maybe 20 studs in the NHL, Flyers have one in Michkov.
Maybe they find another, more likely they'll need to build up stockpile of good players.

[LegoDoom]

David Jiricek for Daemon Hunt ("B prospect), 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th rd picks.

I'm not sure who you think won this trade.

[Docs]

There are maybe 20 studs in the NHL, Flyers have one in Michkov.

This is a gross understatement on the talent in the NHL.

[zambonir]

Yes. Finishing the season on a high note will be meaningless next December. Getting a player with more upside is the goal

Yeah, but clearly something had become untenable with Torts. He would have quit if he hadn't been fired probably, had the actual mandate from the front office been to lose. They'd walked the line well enough, and he'd said the right things, but then when the cupboard was fully emptied he suddenly couldn't deal.

I do think it still matters that these players have raised their game. It also affects the team's awareness of their own off-season needs, its appeal to free agents, and in some cases the trade value of specific guys.

[Austinfan]

We're talking studs. TK is a top scoring forward, but I wouldn't consider him a "stud.
You're not going to land another McDavid, but I'd be happy with the next Suzuki or Thomas.

[LegoDoom]

If you really mean studs, then it's like 5.

[bigegypt0417]

That's really the issue with the argument...

AF attached an arbitrary number and added a Flyer who is nowhere near that in 2025.

[zambonir]

Now we're having the hockey version of the "ace" pitcher argument.

[Florida_Sunshine]

A quick look at how Frost and Farabee are doing since getting from under Torts, and they appear to have fallen off the cliff. Am I looking at it wrong?

A while back someone posted that we never get a top 10 pick and that is what is needed in order to alter a franchise. We have gone from a potential top 5 pick, not counting lottery luck, to a top 8 pick. With all of our draft picks wouldn't a team ahead of us want some of our picks in exchange for their position in the draft if there was someone at 2-5 we really wanted?

[Austinfan]

ES scoring rates (per 60 minutes), at least 600 ES minutes, excluding empty net (from Evolving Hockey):

median 1st line (48), 2nd line (140), 3rd line (236)
4 players over 3.0, Pastrnak, Draisaitl, McDavid, Thomas
18 players 2.5-2.99: including Michkov 2.51 (21)
Pelletier 2.27 (45 if he qualified)
Brink, 2.13 (65)
TK 2.13 (66)
Poehling 1.92 (96)
Tippett 1.83 (119)
Cates 1.77 (133)
Couts 1.75 (139)
Foerster 1.74 (142)

Flyers are rolling 3 lines scoring at top 6 rates.
Any upgrades would strengthen the 4th line by pushing players down the lineup.

Now I don't think the Poehling line can sustain top 6 (above the 2nd median) scoring, but it's certainly an above average 3rd line. Same with the Brink line, though they'd probably score more if they weren't matched against top lines.
But what's obvious they have solid depth, though 4th line is in flux for now.
Add a top 6 center and this becomes a top ten group of forwards.

[Austinfan]

Frost, Farabee and Laughton have all struggled since they were traded.
Frost is playing with 3rd line wingers, in Philly his primary wings were Tippett, TK, Michkov, Atkinson.
Farabee has decent metrics but can't score.

It's almost impossible to trade into the top 5.
Flyers still are most likely to end up at #6 unless they win their last two games.
They could fall to #7 if a team jumps ahead in the lottery, or end up 1 or 2.

[LegoDoom]

I think trading into #2 makes a lot of sense, but it might be just as pricey than for #1. Hagens make some sense, but I'd just stay and take Eklund.

[Austinfan]

It's not the end of the world if they end up with Desnoyers or McQueen.
They'll also pick #23, #25, #38, #41, #44, #52, #70.

Safety in numbers.

[phillychuck]

How often does a player drafted where the Flyers later picks are become a really good NHL player. Honest question.

[zambonir]

I mean, in a complete sampling the odds are probably not that good. But Simon Gagne (22) Justin Williams (28) Mike Richards (24), Steve Downie (29) and Claude Giroux (22) are among the good to legendary Flyers taken in that ballpark. Brian Boucher was also taken 22. Laughton 20. TK 24. Foerster 23.

It's just that AF's head might explode when they trade one of the two firsts and a second for a goalie.

[LegoDoom]

Nolan Patrick, who wasn't a terrible pic, but maybe I don't understand the question.

[jimbomill]

I think trading into #2 makes a lot of sense

Last time we picked second it didn't work out too well.