The New New Unending Flyers thread

[bigegypt0417]

I don't see Briere making major moves this summer.

Again...this is your desire vs. what he can actually do...you can't continue building a culture of losing and then think there is some magical button to push to change that.

The Flyers need to begin to become competitive and on top of it, they are now in position to acquire talent with the money and resources they have.

Anything less than making an effort to improve and get to the playoffs is a failure minded management style.

[Austinfan]

That's the mindset that dug the hole they're currently in.
Briere has been explicit, the goal is to build a SC contender, not slip into the POs every other season like the last 15 years.

While he isn't going to tank, I don't think he's going to spend significant resources on win now moves, either.
If they improve, it'll because the young players on the roster and LHV improve.
Of course, if he can land a young player who'll upgrade the team at a reasonable price, he'll jump on it.

He's more likely to trade veterans if young players push for starting jobs, but he'll let the players dictate his moves.

Once they're a young, 95-100 point team with upside that has made the POs at least once, that's when I expect a big move or two to try and get to the Conference Final. Even then, I hope he's smart enough to avoid trading for "rent a player" at the TDL, those moves rarely work out.

[LegoDoom]

If you aren't going to tank, then you need to really hit on a draft pick or trade/sign a good player. As good as Michkov is, they aren't going to get to the place you are talking about without acquiring other talent.

[zambonir]

Torts is an a-hole, almost all the players hated him, and that is coming out now that he's gone.

Coming out where? Most of the stuff I've seen players saying about has remained complimentary or at least diplomatic. Haven't seen anything anonymous either.

[LegoDoom]

Zero evidence, but I'm fairly sure a lot of players do not like him. Unless you think young players like being benched for seemingly no reason.

[zambonir]

Oh there's certainly evidence over the years. But also plenty of evidence that players do like him. Including on this team. And it showed on the ice more often than not.

No question he's a bit of a dinosaur. But Jones and Briere decided they want this guy, in part to see which players would break under him and which players would survive. That's still on them if the breakage was too heavy.

[LegoDoom]

He should probably be teaching the players on how to play and encouraging. Benching them will not go over well.

[zambonir]

There are lots of ways to teach and lots of ways to coach. His tactics worked for some and not for others. His communication style can certainly be second-guessed but plenty of players have said they knew where they stood with him and liked his bluntness too.

[LegoDoom]

No question he's a bit of a dinosaur. But Jones and Briere decided they want this guy, in part to see which players would bread under him and which players would survive. That's still on them.

I won't have much of push back on this, but Briere did end this when he should have. There is also money involved that fans don't really care about, but the teams might.

[phillychuck]

Charlie O. has reported that lots of players didn't like him, and are now being more upfront about it. I've read it other places, but I'm not keeping track of where. Comments from the traded players might be sour grapes, but have indicated their disdain for Torts. Do you think Cam York liked him? Not according to the back-channel reporting of their confrontation. From everything reported in the press, the players did not think highly of him, and I'm using euphemistic language...

[zambonir]

I mean, I get it, but nobody liked Larry Bowa or Dallas Green either, and now Bowa's like a beloved old grandpa.

[phillychuck]

Sorry to step on toes, but Bowa was an a-hole, too. There is a reason he never succeeded as a manager, and Charlie Manuel, the opposite temperament, did.

[LegoDoom]

There are lots of ways to teach and lots of ways to coach. His tactics worked for some and not for others. His communication style can certainly be second-guessed but plenty of players have said they knew where they stood with him and liked his bluntness too.

I can maybe understand turning the team against the coach in order to make a better team bond.

The issue is that Michkov is too talented for that line of coaching and he should probably know better.

[phillychuck]

A good coach knows when to "coach hard" as the football guys say, and when to be supportive. Bad coaches just coach hard to salve their own egos. I see it in management in other places, too, and I advise my clients to fire those guys. They do, and things improve.

[zambonir]

I just don't see where Torts hasn't been good for Michkov. Would he have been indefinitely? Maybe not. But they also should have had someone who could speak Russian involved from Day 1.

Mike Modano was not too talented to absolutely hate Ken Hitchock, who turned him into a Hall of Famer and Cup winner far beyond just his raw ability.

Any coach who lets the most talent player get away with more mistakes than less talented players is not a good coach either. Torts never played favorites, that's for sure.

[LegoDoom]

The difference is that the most talented player can get away with that because the upside is much bigger than the downside.

[LegoDoom]

Also, the problem wasn't just with the most talented player. York and Frost were also put down. The goal is to rise players up.

[bigegypt0417]

That's the mindset that dug the hole they're currently in.

No...that's not true...poor drafting and bad contracts did that.

I get it...you seemingly enjoy the rebuild vs. the end product but you can build a winner and also contend if you're making smart decisions along the way.

[LegoDoom]

FFS... put the player on the 3rd or 4th line and make a challenge of what you are trying to convey. Benching them does nothing productive.

[Austinfan]

Benching does serve a purpose, I tell you and I tell you . . .

And Torts was an equal opportunity asshole, with AV, once in his doghouse, never out, with Torts, that was last week's news. He didn't play favorites, I think he benched Couts to send a message to the team, forget your contract, your history or your draft status, you play the right way or you don't play.

He gave Frost numerous opportunities to prove himself, and Frost improved defensively (which will keep him in the league) but never became a top six center, and was a waste as a bottom six center given what his next contract would cost.

He made Brink a lot of money down the road by pushing him for two years to play harder off the puck, Brink got stronger and faster, but also listened to Torts and he's become a dangerous forechecker, not just a guy who hangs out on the perimeter trying to make plays.

Torts was coaching up a team to be prepared for PO hockey, teams can slide through the regular season on talent but in the POs, "true grit" matters. Florida became a winner when they traded for Tkachuk, not just his scoring (Huberdeau wasn' bad) but his physical play. TB traded for Coleman and Goodrow to create an elite checking line with Guorde. And so on.

Montreal is a good example, they've added talent, but they're more hard nosed than the past few years, their coach, Martin St. Louis, a Torts protege. Sullivan revived the Pens with a bunch of checkers from the AHL, another Torts protege.

It's not about fighting, it's about understanding that talent alone doesn't win tight games, the willingness to win board battles, block shots, aggressively forecheck, hound scorers and take away open space. If you watched Canada - US, two tight checking games by the best offensive talent in the world, b/c both teams wanted to win badly and were willing to pay the price.