The Ended Flyers Thread

[xogfog]

Somewhat agree, but on the other hand, it's good to see players like young players like Frost, Tippett, York, etc... take steps forward, I wouldn't want to stunt the growth of the youngsters on the team just to tank for a pick. They likely were not going to be the worst team in hockey and they are not making the playoffs, so they will still be in the draft lottery and likely have a top 10 pick. It's supposed to be a decent draft class, so they should still get good value in the draft, who knows they could win the lottery and get Bedard.

[zambonir]

yeah they got on a nice little groove but Bruins game was still reality-check. in the end the team they built and the goals they set for this year, misguided as they were, will probably be met. but what happens in March and the off-season and next year?

and what would have happened if the themed jerseys had been the game jerseys? separate from the politics, you are pretty much required to wear the uniforms your team/employer tells you to wear, though we saw the same thing just happen in the World Cup. In no way should Provorov's perspective on this be respected or honored, and it should make at least some of his teammates - unfortunately not all of them - think less of him too.

[Aquapong]

Well we were trying to get this thread to turn over…. It’s more life in a few hours than it’s had in months.

We have had a nice run aside from the reality check with Boston. Hopefully these kids are building something.

My mom once used a picture of my kids with a gay pride or similar border on Facebook . My wife and I both had the same reaction to it and I asked her to take it down and asked her not to use pictures of our kids in overtly political posts, whether we agreed with the topic or not. Would my not wanting my kids’ pictures associated with whatever that social media craze be seen as homophobia? I simply declined to participate just like Provorov did. Is the DEI mantra that silence is violence really applicable here? He didn’t say all the gays should get sent to the gulag or said nothing while a crowd of people beat up a gay guy. He chose not to wear a jersey.

[xogfog]

Was this just a Flyers thing or did all teams in the NHL do this? I'm only curious because obviously Provarav is not the only Russion in the league.

[zambonir]

I don't think there is one specific night for all teams

NHL Pride Month Celebrations

[Aquapong]

Bellows put on waivers. I wonder if we’ll see Brink called up. He’s made his presence felt in a short time with the Phantoms.

[Austinfan]

Flyers success is primarily younger players, and two veterans who are increasing their trade value. What's not to like?

Torts has forced the team to acknowledge the need to rebuild by not inflating their recent success into smug satisfaction - his realistic takes with the media have worked as a wake-up call to the FO.

Provorov is trade bait, not b/c of his social attitudes, but b/c York has emerged as their best D-man, Sanheim is signed long-term and Andrae is one of the best defensemen in the SHL at 20 years old.

TDA is a disappointment, he's a top offensive defenseman, but he also has rocks for brains when it comes to defense, when Torts gives up on you, you have to be close to uncoachable, b/c he gives 2nd and 3rd chances to young players to prove him wrong.

On the other hand, while Risto will never live up to his trade cost or his contract, he's worked hard to become a decent defensive defenseman and may have carved out a spot for a couple years, until they develop a replacement.

This team basically needs two things, an 1st pair RHD and a top playmaking center - that would push down other players into roles where they're better suited.

[Aquapong]

I wonder where we’d be with a healthy Couturier and Ellis?

[zambonir]

Better but still stuck in the middle. Also a healthy, high-end version of Ellis probably doesn't exist, and that's something the Flyers could have foreseen (whether when they signed him or when they started scrambling to replace him). Whereas Couts is just unfortunate.

Blistering Athletic article about D'Angelo today (not blistering him, just Fletcher).

[flyers19rw]

The club needs an overhaul at the top. I’m interested in seeing what a Camillo/Briere/Tortorella combo could do. I’m finished with the Scott/Fletcher/AV or whoever group. Hiring Tortorella was a step in the right direction. Need to continue the purge. There are rumblings that Timonen would be willing to help revamp the organization. A new regime made up of these types of people could get things on a positive path.

[zambonir]

I doubt Scott is going anywhere but it would make sense for them to make Camillo more the face of the organization, and Fletcher is just poison at this point, PR-wise. I'm also not convinced replacing the Old Guard of Flyers/Spectacor Company Men with a New Guard constitutes real change, but it's probably the best you can hope for from this franchise. The last five years still fall at Holmgren and Clarke's feet (they forced out Hexy and brought in Fletch) so leaving them out of the decision-making process might be a step in the right direction.

I like Torts, and he at least gives the fans something to feel better about by comparison to everything else right now, but he'll probably get fired by the next GM before this team is really headed in the right direction. Actually making the big moves last year, and letting the new people hire the coach, would have been more meaningful change.

[flyers19rw]

It’s doubtful that Tortorella is going anywhere unless he wants out to which he’s given little indication of wanting to do.
The game has changed since the era when Clarke and Holmgren were on the ice. Unfortunately the Flyers FO has not grasped this fact or the nuances that come with it. As a result the product on the ice is what it is- unenjoyable. At a time when league scoring is going up, the Flyers are hard pressed to get two goals in a contest. Is it any wonder that tickets aren’t moving?
Fletcher has to go along with his vision of the game. He’s wedded to a bygone era. It’s a game of motion now. Positions are interchangeable meaning that players of today need to have different skills than what were stressed in the past. Speed and skill trump size and strength in today’s game. Guys like Briere and Timonen knew that when they played and know it today. It’s past time for the organization to turn the page in many ways.

[zambonir]

Oh, he's probably not going anywhere in the next year or two but it's probably going to take four or five years for this team to really contend again. And the Flyers are know for their hair trigger.

Beyond that, if they really turn over the front office the new guys would be well within their rights to want someone they hired themselves. And he never would have been hired in the first place if your criticism of the FO wasn't accurate.

[Austinfan]

The team has gotten faster, when were they able to skate with a team like Edmonton in the past?
Ironically, they actually struggled more with the Isles and Preds, I think b/c they have a lot of young forwards who can get out of their comfort zone against a tough checking team.

Give Torts a GM who'll find him his kind of players and they can turn it around pretty quickly - he has a history of turning teams around - the problem in CBJ was the GM made the mistake of thinking early success meant the job was done, didn't manage the cap, then made a couple big TDL trades - and when Bob, Panarin and Duchene walked, the party was over.

I think this is why Torrts has been so public about the need to build this team - this is his last go round and I think he wants to build his legacy by leaving a team behind him that's among the league's elite - making the playoffs means nothing to him with his resume. So he's trying to make it harder for Fletcher to go for the quick fix to save his job. Notice how he's praised Briere, I think he wants a GM on the same page when it comes to rebuilding.

Torts actually is comfortable with the "new" NHL, he's developed fast undersized forwards (St Louis, Atkinson, now TK), he encourages D-men to attack in the O-zone (but requires his forwards to know when they need to cycle back and cover for the D-man), but also stresses back checking and shot blocking b/c he wants to be aggressive on offense (that is, make mistakes of aggression then skate like hell to make up for them).

Three things you need to make his scheme work: speed, motor and IQ, play fast, play every shift and don't be stupid.

[zambonir]

Not sure this changes anything. In fact, since Scott will have less to do but remains both company chairman and Flyers' governor, he might be even more hands-on with just the hockey team while Calmillo runs sales and marketing, and Hilferty the parent company. .

Comcast Spectacor Names Hilferty CEO

[Docs]

patiently waiting for the flyers fire sale to begin. hope fletcher didn't wait too long, seems like there have been lots of trades this week already. after the deadline, assuming the flyers acquire draft picks, I will wonder if they plan to use the draft picks in the draft or as trade assets to "reload" which seems to be the upper management philosophy with this organization.

[zambonir]

I think Hayes (Marcus not Kevin) is a little too optimistic here.

Flyers finally wave white flag, pivot toward a Sixers-like ‘Process’

[bkeich]

I think it is pretty clear:

1). They have clearly waited too long. Given the sheer number of moves that they could make they needed to be at the start, middle and end of the market.

2). Apparently they still think that this team just needs a re-tool to go over the top. Truth is there is almost no one worth retaining. This is a franchise 8-10 years from competing. They have minimal young assets (they had a sheer number a few years ago, but they all flamed out).

[kmc1019]

Disaster of a franchise. The mid-round picks that the players rumored to be moved will bring back cannot be called a "rebuild".
Same basic problem for a decade or more: too many 3rd-line talents given 1st-line contracts plus failure to hit on draft picks, compounded more recently by awful trades that shipped off draft capital in exchange for mediocre players..
The dearth of premium offensive skill on the club as well as in the prospect pool means the Flyers are going nowhere positive any time soon. Sad shell of a once-great franchise.

[zambonir]

Sad shell of a once-great franchise

Been an awfully long time since the "great" part even. Really nothing but bad luck and injuries and bad goaltending over the past 30 years even when it was good, sandwiched around a single fluky Cup final appearance and a few other good teams (like '00 and '04). Team never adjusted to the cap era, "Mr. Snider" hurt as much as he helped and even a decent flair for acquiring and developing talent got wasted (Carter/Richards as well as the return for them, and Giroux's career as well). The mistakes they made by not ever being willing to rebuild (both under Hakstol initially and more recently) are at least predictable; the poor drafting and the absolute failure of Hextall's regime are more surprising. What changed since 2007 or so?