The Ended Flyers Thread

[flyers19rw]

Every day that Fletcher is on the job is a day when the organization’s brass is thumbing their nose at the fans. It’s past time for ownership to start the process of cleaning up this mess that is the Flyers. All of the people who created this catastrophe for a once proud sports leader in this town must go starting with Fletcher.

[VoteForKalas]

Every day that Fletcher is on the job is a day when the organization’s brass is thumbing their nose at the fans. It’s past time for ownership to start the process of cleaning up this mess that is the Flyers. All of the people who created this catastrophe for a once proud sports leader in this town must go starting with Fletcher.

The problem is, like many other bad organizations, the GM is only another bad decision by the ownership. So, unless Comcast fires themselves & sells to an owner who cares about the Flyers, firing Fletcher will not change a thing.

Fletcher should never have been hired since Hextall should never have been fired and on and on the thread of incompetence goes back in time....the ownership is what needs to change for improvement to be made that has any staying power. The current ownership has no ability or understanding on how to turn the franchise around. All they care and know about is ticket sales, attendance, in-game entertainment, merchandise, luxury boxes etc.

[zambonir]

I think Comcast cares about the Flyers, that's part of the problem! If the Roberts family didn't want to still own it or it wasn't viewed as integral to the corporate history why still own the team? I think it's also theoretically possible to change things without changing ownership. I would have said - and likely did say - everything you just said about the Flyers about Middleton as recently as two years ago. But he's evolved some, and also got kind of lucky (IMO) with Dombrowski.

Of course he's also not a corporation. In theory if Comcast was willing and able to clean house (Scott, Holmgren, Clarke) there could be real change. Truth is in the Phillies' case that really didn't begin to happen until the institutional old guard either died or retired.

All they care and know about is ticket sales, attendance, in-game entertainment, merchandise, luxury boxes etc.

Actually it's worse than that isn't it? All of those things have cratered and can only be fixed by winning. But for Comcast the Flyers are just part of a much bigger media and arena/events business. As long as that's still working for the board and shareholders (and/or they keep the team because the Roberts family wants to keep the team) the team won't be sold. It's hard for me to say what benefit the team really provides as just a speck in the overall media landscape, but it must still provide onoe.

I reckon the Sixers arena isn't really going to happen but that might be the only thing that I could see changing everything, if losing basketball (including Nova and NCAA tournament) and having to compete with concerts prompts them to get out (with a new owner who's happy to work with/be a tenant to the Sixers).

For now, the best we can hope for is what it also looked like the Phillies might have to do for a while (and would have if MLB's salary cap and free agency worked like the NHL's) - conceded that they completely botched the 2014-2018 rebuild and do it all over again.

[flyers19rw]

IDK what promises Roberts and Snider made to each other when the two entities merged. One would think that Roberts, being a local guy and his corporation having an interest in the success of the Flyers on several levels, would step in here to demand that the mess be fixed.
As you indicate, the problem goes deeper than one person. More than a few people need to find other work. JMO but I see the hiring of Valerie Camillo as a step towards establishing a new management regime. If the rumors about Briere becoming the next GM, we could see the establishment of a new management base that have a grip on the modern game of hockey. The remaking of the front office needs to start somewhere. Canning Fletcher is a place to start.

[zambonir]

IDK what promises Roberts and Snider made to each other when the two entities merged. One would think that Roberts, being a local guy and his corporation having an interest in the success of the Flyers on several levels, would step in here to demand that the mess be fixed.

It's his mess! He needs to look in the mirror and make the changes. A new regime would definitely help but the old guys need to be completely walled off. They should be signing autographs and shmoozing sponsors, not running the team or hanging out in the locker room (which was one of the things that got Hextall canned, his pushing back against that).

Briere might be good, but he's yet another legacy guy and company man (and even more so a Comcast company man than a Flyers company man).

Somewhere along the way the team's ability find talent also really cratered. Hextall gets some of the blame for that but clearly the scouting/drafting apparatus ceased to be what it was under Clarke and Holmgren in the first part of the 2000s.

[flyers19rw]

Briere might be good, but he's yet another legacy guy and company man (and even more so a Comcast company man than a Flyers company man).

I don't see the current Flyers as necessarily being Roberts' mess at all. Running Comcast is a bigger job than steering the Flyers. Hs interest in the club probably has diminished lately since NBC is no longer involved with national broadcasts of the NHL. Yet having the Flyers be a laughing stock of a League does not speak well for Comcast's image. I doubt that Comcast would dump the club now since it would be selling low. More likely that they "fix" it and then move away from the Flyers.
As for Briere, he has few ties to the BSB guys other than he played here when they were in management positions. He had six years here but also six in AZ; four in Buffalo as well as a season in both Montreal and Colorado. Does that make him a legacy guy for the Coyotes or Sabres? Are we going to cut out all former Flyers from working in the organization? Don't want a Timonen around?

[zambonir]

Brian Roberts may not be super-hands-on, but he's emotionally and logistically invested in the team, and Dave Scott is his guy. And it doesn't matter what sweaters Briere wore, he is also Roberts and Dave Scott's guy. A company man. The best case is that he's Hextall 2.0 - an minor outsider who is also an insider - who can both do a better job and not be undermined from within.

I don't know, can Kimmo Timonen run a hockey team?

There's no "selling low' in professional sports. The value of the asset is completely unrelated to W-L record or even seasonal dips in attendance and revenue.

[Aquapong]

Flyers have actually won 5 in a row now. DeAngelo seems to be what we hoped Ghost would have been.

[Florida_Sunshine]

And some of the young kids are stepping up and showing growth.

[bigegypt0417]

seems more like speculation but Provorov but he would bring back haul...just need a different GM making it...

Flyers reportedly checking market for Ivan Provorov trade

[Aquapong]

Provorov now apparently being dragged on Twitter for not participating in warmups last night on gay pride night. The team was wearing special jerseys and he declined to participate. I don’t see the problem. He didn't come out against Lgbtq, just didn’t participate because he thought wearing the jersey to celebrate something he doesn’t agree with was not being true to himself. Whether I agree with what he has to say, he has the right to express or not express his own mind.

[Docs]

Playing devil's advocate, why does he have the right to express his mind but the people who disagree with him do not? I also disagree with saying he didn't come out against LGBTQ, that's exactly what he did.

[Aquapong]

They certainly have the right to post about their disagreement with his actions. What I find ridiculous is the supposedly tolerant left saying things like the Flyers should have benched him or whatever other more severe punishment is hypocritical compared to the support they give athletes who advocate for their positions during sporting events.

[Squire]

1. Provorov is free to do what he wants.
2. I'm free to think he's a crappy human being for his choice.
3. The Flyers are free to punish him or not punish him since they are a private entity.
4. I'm free to be disappointed in the Flyers decision.
5. I do wish when a player cites his religious beliefs that a reporter would follow up with "oh....what church do you go to....and when was the last time were you there?"
6. I'd also like to see the U.S. Military de-coupled from all sporting events too.

[Aquapong]

5 is irrelevant. Imagine the same question being asked of trans people…” oh you’re a man now? Prove it.” It either cuts both ways or not at all.

As to the military being tied to sports, I’m not sure how it started. I’m not even sure how singing the national anthem started. At this point it’s just kind of tradition. I don’t have an issue with a military appreciation night, gay pride night, Irish night, etc, as long as everyone is represented. If a player wanted to sit out on military night for personal reasons, I’m fine with that too.

Eta: not sure why a portion of my post is bolded. I’m not yelling

[Squire]

From my albeit now left-leaning point of view, people who regularly cite their "religion" as the basis for their anti-gay beliefs and do not seem to be concerned with literally any other tenets of their religion are just anti-gay and not actually religious.

[Docs]

This discussion feels like its ready to be moved to the politics (OT) thread.

NFL players protested for a group of marginalized people in this country (not anti-military as our former president suggested). NHL Pride Night is an event showing support for a group of marginalized people in this country. Provorov's stance is not comparable to the NFL players because his position of "protest" stands for intolerance (and ironically shows why Pride Night is necessary).

It is not ridiculous or hypocritical for people to be upset with someone who believes in marginalizing other people - that's the larger point which seems to have been missed. Tolerance is not about accepting people's hate or mistreatment of other people.

All that said, Provorov lives in Russia in the offseason and will very likely retire in Russia. Russia has anti-gay laws, is currently a police state and he may fear for his and his family's safety if he participated. Or he may be legit homophobic. Either way, I'm disappointed that he sat out because I do not support someone's right to marginalize someone else.

[xogfog]

I don't know if Provorov will go back to Russia this year, he could get drafted,

[xogfog]

Bringing the thread back to hockey, the Fyers are playing well lately, actually watchable, 8-2 over their last 10 games. Ersson looks like a solid goalie as a backup to Hart.

[bkeich]

Honestly all they are doing is messing up their draft spot. The team we have is greatly missing talent, the winning is nice but it really is just ensuring that this will be a longer build (it isn't a rebuild since the team wasn't good to begin with)