The 2018 Phillies managerial search

schooldoc 2017-10-26 16:10:22 UTC #161

I would like to see the Phils at least call Girardi as a matter of due diligence...but in the end, it's probably not a fit for either side.

Wathan will be the Phils' choice. As xogfog suggested, not the sexy choice but very possibly the right one.

Girardi has been on TV in the past and I'm sure the national networks that cover baseball will also be calling him.

allentown 2017-10-26 17:05:24 UTC #162

Is Girardi really the guy to nurture and lead a young team to the top and continue to manage them through a half dozen years of success? He really seems a mismatch to me. The Phillies are turning the corner, but still have lumps to take next season. I can't imagine Girardi would have any interest with Klentak continuing to say now is not the time to start spending.

bigegypt0417 2017-10-26 17:10:26 UTC #163

To be fair...he took a fairly young team this year and got them one game away from the World Series.

zambonir 2017-10-26 17:22:49 UTC #164

I just don't think Girardi is such a great manager that you change directions to get him. Unlike, say, when Theo decided he had to have Maddon because it was just such a perfect fit. That's what it's really about is fit. If all the Phillies needed was an experienced manager with a lot of playoff wins they could also look at Baker or hire Farrell.

And also, while I suspect it's really just about change and new blood, if Cashman doesn't think Girardi is the guy to guide a young team, well, that's what the Phillies have.

I'm hoping the Farrell interview was also to see if he'd consider being the pitching coach or maybe even just a consultant if he takes a year off.

It's funny to see people out there in the larger Internet react. There are people who just won't accept a minor league manager which is silly (especially if the other candidate has barely managed), people who think it's Sandberg Part 2 when it clearly isn't, and people who just really want an outside person (which is still where I am).

I don't think it is Wathan's job to lose though, why not just hire him if so? If anything it might be Kapler's job to lose.

Worth noting from the Philly.com article - MacPhail and others (Gillick? Middleton?) have not been involved yet but will be for the second round. And also, as I posted on another topic (about the size of the Phillies front office) Macphail's son works for Kapler.

allentown 2017-10-26 17:31:39 UTC #165

A lot of expensive vets on that team with a lot of AB/IP. Som.e of the young guys had quite a few MLB seasons in the book. More to the point, the Yankees have been a winning team and a big salary team the past 3 seasons. The Phillies have been neither. The Phillies are likely to be a very young/inexperienced team in 2018 without a veteran star. The youngish Nola will be our 'veteran' .

bigegypt0417 2017-10-26 17:48:12 UTC #166

The Phillies are in a position to add vets as well. I mean is there really a manager on the market with a better resume and understanding of what it takes to win?

California_Dreamin 2017-10-26 17:55:25 UTC #167

zambonir...when I heard it was down to two [Wathan or Kapler] I thought the same thing as you did...if its Wathan then why not just announce it now? This led me to believe it was Kapler's to lose and the Phils were waiting till the end of the WS to offer him the job.

But then I read that MLB does not like major announcements made during the WS [apparently they were not thrilled that the Mets announced their managerial choice now]and the Phils are still very considerate of major league protocol.

So even if its Wathan, they will wait till the series ends before making the announcement.

Austinfan 2017-10-26 18:08:18 UTC #168

Not worried about "outside the organization" anymore, Klentak has his own people in place, he's retained the competent ones, and the old foggies are dead, retired or pushed up stairs.
What they need in a manager is someone who can teach and related to a very young roster the next few years and grow with them.

Philsmania 2017-10-26 18:23:14 UTC #169

If Facebook is any indication, Girardi has immediately become the phans' choice. If either Wathan or Kapler get the job, like Manuel when he got the job over the then-people's choice Leyland, they are going to have a herculean task ahead of them in winning the town over and any mistake they make will likely be blown out of proportion and held up as proof that they are allegedly buffoons.

zambonir 2017-10-26 18:49:34 UTC #170

For sure if Klentak hires Wathan (or had hired Velandia) it's going to be because they fit into his vision, and in Wathan's case, his internal pedigree is not at all a bad thing.

The difference between Girardi and Leyland is Leyland actually wanted the job and interviewed for it. Of course they should reach out to him. And it will look bad if he takes the Nats job (but who could blame him?) But I still don't think he's automatically a better candidate. I don't agree with much that's in this article (which is also as much for clicks, of course). The last thing I want is for Middleton to step in at the end, as this article suggests.

And yeah, if Klentak wants to hire Kapler, he needs to run him past MacPhail and Middleton. That would seem less necessary with Wathan. But more likely, they are both legit candidates and these second interviews are an important part of the process.

It is still possible the Phillies will be able to announce this on Monday, if Kapler is getting his second interview today (I mean, he's not directly involved in the World Series but I imagine he still wants and is expected to be with the Dodgers braintrust in Houston). But they also don't really have to, what's three more days?

jimbomill 2017-10-26 19:18:24 UTC #171

He had a decent number of Baby Bombers and did ok.

andyb 2017-10-26 19:25:03 UTC #172

I think Girardi is a good manager - just hard to know if he is a great manager or has benefited from above average players in most years. His managing did not make Aaron Judge great this year. Aaron Judge largely did.

The one reason in my mind to consider Girardi as a manager would be if you wanted to go all-in on some free agents like Darvish and Otani this year. Yes there is next offseason too, but if the Phillies did not sign any free agents this year and Girardi only wins 70-75 games I am not sure he would make that much difference with Machado and others a year from now.

I am probably fine with either Wathan or Kapler if it comes to that. Velandia has always seemed to be a longshot though I could easily see him being put on the staff as bench coach or something like that. I wonder if Farrell would consider dropping down to the pitching coach job also if that were offered.

teabag259 2017-10-26 19:49:31 UTC #173

I guess the question is is the new manager (be it Wathan, Kapler, whoever) going to be the guy that brings this team into contention or the guy who is the bridge to the guy who brings this core group to the playoffs.

julio 2017-10-26 19:56:27 UTC #174

Making a managerial decision on the basis of random peoples' postings on Facebook would make about as much sense as deciding who to elect President based on "information" gleaned from Facebook. Do we really want this decision (or any) dumbed down to the views of the absolute least-common-denominator gibbering idiots?

When the Phils return to competitiveness, the fair-weather fans will return. It's what they do. I have to note that these fans, who were upset that Manuel was hired over Leyland, did kind of "come around" to Charlie - to put it mildly. They're fickle (I decided to say "fickle" instead of "stupid," but you ought to know what I was thinking...). They live in the moment, and have no ability to think long-term, or plan long-term. If you let them drive your decisions... you fail.

I'm kind of assuming here that Klentak/MacPhail are more intelligent than 62 million American voters. We'll have to hope so.

zambonir 2017-10-26 20:20:06 UTC #175

Oh he's definitely not supposed to be a bridge guy. This team is expected to make the playoffs in 2019 or 2020, ideally winning the division in 2020 and along the way the manager and Klentak both get a contract extension. If there's another manager by 2021 something went wrong.

Getting rid of Mackanin buys the new guy one season of honeymoon (but they still want to go .500).

I gotta admit Andy's idea to hire Girardi and accelerate the timetable is fun to ponder but I just don't see this group changing course on either aspect of their plan. I wonder, if they actually did want to talk to Girardi, if he would demand, if not actual input into the roster, at least a guarantee that they'd give him a few names FAs this season.

andyb 2017-10-26 20:37:12 UTC #176

And that is where I would say no to Girardi. The manager deserves input on the roster but the GM needs to be in charge. I was more thinking that having Girardi might attract some people to play for us (other than CC who I could imagine following him). I know they might impress some fans by giving him a big $5 million plus a year contract (hey fans, we are not cheap!), but that would not make much difference to me. I almost prefer the lower cost younger manager because it is easier to cut them loose in a couple of years if things are not working out.

David_Criss 2017-10-26 20:47:41 UTC #177

I'm surprised we haven't seen Jeter and Girardi at a podium already announcing Mattingley being fired and Girardi being heired to lead the Fish. I mean its ben five-hours already.

I can't see him wanting to lead the Phillies or Marlins though. I am guessing Boston hates jumping on Alex Cora so quickly. And I wouldn't be surprised to see him make the short list in Washington.

zambonir 2017-10-26 20:51:01 UTC #178

I agree but there's a difference between assuring him he'll have what he needs and actuallly putting him in charge. For instance as far as we know the Phillies have no intention of pursuing Darvish, but if they wanted Girardi badly enough to revisit that plan, it would still be Klentak's decision. And Girardi may not even care. If he's interested in this job, and if Klentak were to want him badly enough to switch gears this late, it's gonna be because they are on the same page about where the team is and what its future holds.

Y'know, Tanaka can opt out of his contract too.

andyb 2017-10-26 20:54:39 UTC #179

Was not thinking about Tanaka though really I expect him to stay in New York and maybe negotiate a couple of extra years and another $50 plus million since there is a relatively weak free agent market.

In broad scopes I agree that we are not likely to go after the more expensive free agents and the plan is to build slowly with a young roster. Not that I agree with that sentiment, but it seems the way the Phillies want to go and Wathan/Kapler is probably the right choice for that strategy.

Philsmania 2017-10-26 21:12:42 UTC #180

Cross Mike Maddux off the pitching coach list.