ST GDT 3/4/21: Phillies (Moore) at Yankees (Garcia)

[Taudawg]

Through 3
2-0 Phillies on top
Kingery homer
Odubel homer with bat flip
good two innings from Matt Moore

[el-pietro]

There was a really nice relay to throw a Yankees runner out at the plate. Odubel picked it up in the corner in right field, whoever made the relay did a really great job and threw a one hopper to Mathis who had a nice tag. Might have been Maton?

[Taudawg]

Vince with real nice 2 innings

[LoneStarPhan]

VV pitches two scoreless innings without a hit or a walk. Looked really good. Had 3 Ks.
Moore also looked good. Retired first five and then a full count walk followed by a double into the right field corner that led to the out at home. Moore K'd 2.

Kingery hit a line shot to left and Herrera a strong drive to right for the two runs. Hoskins ended the third with a fly out to the fence in left center.

[el-pietro]

I'm really conflicted about Odúbel. He committed a pretty horrific act in 2019 and I doubt it was a one time incident. However every account says he has taken genuine steps to improve as a person, not just to rehabilitate his public profile, he is still with his girlfriend/victim though its impossible to know what their relationship is like.
Before his suspension he was infuriating and entertaining in equal parts, and his bat flip today was an example of the fun side of him.
One part of me wants him to hit the cover off the ball, win the CF role and put up 3-4 Wins and help the team reach the playoffs. Another part of me wants him to be gone so we don't have to deal with the the moral issues. I'm leaning towards hoping he gets a chance, he has served his suspension and then some. Mike Vick and Brett Myers were given second chances in Philadelphia, Kareem Hunt and many more have been given chances in the NFL and other leagues. Why is what Odúbel did so much worse than those other incidents, and why should he be punished indefinitely?
Of course, if he doesn't hit then it doesn't matter. He needs to earn his position if hes going to play, and I think he needs to outperform an equivalent player without his baggage.

[Taudawg]

Agree with all of this

[Taudawg]

On another note, Haseley looks significantly stronger.

[zambonir]

Putting aside the ethical debate, which - right or wrong - is somewhat immaterial given the provisions of the joint agreement, the trick is still, how much stock do you put in spring training numbers?

And then also, what is the accompanying move? If he did make the team you either have to trade Quinn or option Haseley (and remove another player from the 40). Though the same would be true of Matt Joyce.

[LoneStarPhan]

Meanwhile, back at the ballpark, Phillies plate 9 in the 4th. Bohm with a 3 run home run.

[el-pietro]

Good question, if he projects as the starter then hes beaten out Quinn and Haseley and between those two and Moniak you likely need to move one or more on because they are all sort of redundant.
If he projects as a 4th/5th outfielder then hes not worth the 40 man move, never mind the moral concerns.

I suspect that unless there is an injury, or he is hitting something like 600 with a bunch of homers he starts the year in Allentown and gets a chance to earn a promotion by performance or injury to someone on the 26 man.

[Taudawg]

Putting aside the ethical debate, which - right or wrong - is somewhat immaterial given the provisions of the joint agreement, the trick is still, how much stock do you put in spring training numbers?

Spring numbers is all we have unless the outcome was pre-determined. All candidates for CF will be judged on spring training - all small samples.

[andyb]

433 feet on that Bohm HR. Grain of salt is that this is the Phillies home lineup with lots of regulars against what looks to be the Yankees C team.

Both Moore and Velazquez with good starts. Depth on the pitching staff with relievers that can go multiple innings (i.e. the 6th and 7th starters) is important.

[LoneStarPhan]

Kinzler pitches a 1-2-3 fifth inning with two K's.

[Taudawg]

I wouldn't use a roster spot for Quinn. After parts of several seasons, I think Quinn is a gadget player - He doesn't hit for average or power and has questionable fielding despite his excellent speed. Teams can't carry a designated pinch runner anymore. He might net something in return - cheap, several years of control yet and young(ish).

[Taudawg]

Moniak homers off former Phil Reggie McClain

[kmc1019]

Moore and Velasquez both strong today and could be such a tantalizing tandem. Would Phillies consider taking such an approach? Upside could be "complete" games.

Bombs for Kingery, Herrera, Bohm and Moniak.
Bullpen dominance from Mitchell, Kintzler and Rosso.

Just pinch me already! Phillies are peaking

[zambonir]

But it is pre-determined to some extent. The two incumbents who are already on the 40 and in major league camp have a clear edge, and Kingery is pretty much a lock for 2-3 starts a week in CF for lack of anywhere else to put him. And Miller is pretty much going to be the LHB in LF. Even the guys with opt-outs who are in major league camp have a slight edge if you want to maintain the best possible organizational depth.. These decisions are never made on pure merit.

Quinn is still a pretty valuable bench player to me. And Girardi seems to still love him, though he hasn't had as much time to be disappointed as we have. Should Herrera make the team a switch-hitting speedster looks better on the bench than Haseley (especially with Miller already on it), plus you don't actualy lose Haseley.

It'll get interesting if Herrera starts playing a lot, or if they move him into the other clubhouse. Today was obviously high-profile.

From a pure baseball scenario the best thing would be if he really did return to his 2017 form. Then, assuming the Phillies have already weathered the PR storm, he gets his option picked up too.

[andyb]

I think the only situation Quinn does not make the team (short of a trade for something real in return) is if Herrera makes it. Quinn is useful for baserunning and defense even if he does not hit much. Cutch might end up being subbed defensively in late innings most games. I also think Kingery will continue more in a supersub utility mode than as a CF starter.

Herrera changes the equation though and one assumes if he makes the team that the team will also deem his CF defense worthy. That takes chances away from Quinn. I suppose it is possible Matt Joyce beats Quinn out for the last spot on the bench, but isn't what he provides what we signed Miller for?

Now things get tighter with a 4-man bench. Though if that does not include Quinn it probably means they traded him for something to clear a roster spot for Watson or another non-roster pitcher. With Covid frankly I expect them to get many of the non-roster players to agree to go to the alternate site for a month. A Covid promotion does not cost a roster spot so at least for the first 4-6 weeks of the season I think the Matt Joyce types will be content to hang around. If a Quinn is playing poorly after a month then a switch might make more sense.

[Taudawg]

I disagree unless the Phillies are a dishonest organization - if they are dishonest, then I agree. What call it a competition if it really is not one? Kingery can play all three outfield positions, 2B, 3B and SS - although I would shift Segura to SS when Didi needs time off. Kingery can get his 5 starts a week if Girardi manages him correctly.

Girardi has indicated he is leaning toward a 5 man bench - In a scenario where Herrera wins the starting CF job - Miller, Haseley, Knapp, Quinn and Kingery. Joyce is a nice bench piece, but no reason to keep him (today) with how Herrera is looking so far.

In a perfect world, what is Quinn's ceiling? Dave Roberts maybe, but I think he's more Billy Hamilton. Quinn has 127 punch outs in 450 MLB plate appearance. The pattern looks to be more of the same this spring 1 for 5 with 4 Ks.

Regarding PR, I think they have already weathered the worst. Phillies tickets are sky-high $$$ on stub hub. People will boo for sure, but they will also buy tickets and tune in.

[LoneStarPhan]

Final: In 8 full innings played.

Yankees 0-3-2
Phillies 15-12-0

Phillies hit six home runs today. Moniak with 2 in 2 trips to the plate.