Sixers' Market Street Arena dead, Team and Comcast/Flyers to build new one in South Philly

[zambonir]

Sixers to remain in South Philly, abandoning plans to build a Center City arena,...

[Philsmania]

They really doublecrossed the city politicians who stuck their necks out for what was an unpopular initiative.

[zambonir]

I doubt the other councilmembers (like Squilla, or the ones who are to the left of Harrity and were more on the fence) are that mad. I'm sure Comcast and the builder's union (the real engine behind this I think since they still get all the jobs and projects and then some) will help them get over it.

Supposedly Goodell (as well as Silver) was involved as well.

I'm delighted, as both a general opponent of the new arena (and of the city having two arenas) and as a South Philly resident. Obviously still a challenge to redevelop Market Street but I think the vision for the Stadium District (and hopefully the Navy Yard too) is compelling, and less destructive. And Comcast/Flyers were gonna have to get a new arena both because the WFC will be old and to compete with the Sixers - unless they'd bailed on the district entirely and become the Sixers' tenant, which obviously wasn't going to happen.

[Philsmania]

I wonder what Goodell's dog was in the fight.

[Squire]

I’m bummed. I liked the center city idea.

[dcsman]

I saw both sides to the downtown arena argument and was torn. However, what the Sixers have done here is absolutely reprehensible. They wasted so much time, energy, emotions, and much more on a project that they knew all-along was going to be controversial only to back out after everything was ready to go? I can no longer support the organization until ownership sells. They are at best a joke and at worst evil.

[phillychuck]

Did they back out because of Comcast or were there behind-the-scenes threats or other impediments to the Market Street project?

[zambonir]

I think the Eagles are committed to (and stand to profit from) Comcast's new plan for the complex (as are the Phillies) and we already know Josh Harris likes to take orders from league commissioners.

But seriously, the fact that he's accountable to both the NHL and the NFL because of him being in other markets is a hilarious twist.

All the Sixers ever wanted out of this was to not be Comcast's tenant and make more money (both off the arena and surrounding development). Now they get that. They didn't care about saving Market Street and it wasn't even their first choice. But hopefully their participation with Comcast on alternate plans will accomplish something.

If Comcast could have stopped it sooner they would have, or maybe Comcast was equally stubborn about letting the Sixers have real involvement and finally gave some on their side. Clearly some more pennies dropped in the past month. The political will for the project was entirely due to the builder's union's sway with Parker (same as it ever was, just different generation) so I reckon Comcast got them on board.

[zambonir]

Details seem sketchy but apparently Comcast would join the bid for a WNBA team too (which might also open the door for PWHL).

It also says Sixers were very serious about moving to New Jersey which almost says to me that they still might have done so had Market hit bumps (as it surely could have).

76ers to Partner With Comcast on New Arena, WNBA Team Bid

We'll see if everyone can actually deliver, both on the entire development and on a new arena that doesn't get public funding.

[zambonir]

The other interesting thing implied in that story is that the NBA clearly had an interest in making its newest national TV partner, Comcast, happy, as it did the Sixers.

[dcsman]

Too many people with too much money dictating how things should be done in Philly. This whole thing stinks.

[Philsmania]

I saw both sides to the downtown arena argument and was torn. However, what the Sixers have done here is absolutely reprehensible. They wasted so much time, energy, emotions, and much more on a project that they knew all-along was going to be controversial only to back out after everything was ready to go? I can no longer support the organization until ownership sells. They are at best a joke and at worst evil.

I agree. It's hard to say that they negotiated in good faith with the city. Pretty similar to what John Fisher did with the Athletics and Oakland, switching gears to Las Vegas when all that was left for Howard Terminal was dotting i's and crossing t's. Seriously, would anyone be shocked if in a couple of months they are announcing that they are moving to Camden? These guys can't be trusted, period.

[zambonir]

I dunno, I only blame the Sixers in that it was a bad idea to begin with. It sounds like Comcast really took the lead here to turn this around, they started talking over the holidays. If the Sixers' plan all along was to get that to happen that would be pretty three-dimensional chess and I guess I would blame Comcast just as much for not making this good an offer in the first place.

Anyway, it's hard for me to be anything other than happy for Chinatown and Philadelphia that this is the result, regardless of how why or if it never needed to happen. I don't think this mayor would have actually been accomplishing other things with the time she wasted on it, but either way this is on her and the council and the builders union just as much as it is on Josh Harris.

Now let's go back to blaming him for the team's bad performance on the court, and hope his football team loses tonight (though I'm not sure the Eagles want the Bucs in the mix either if it breaks that way).

[BostonRoss]

While I want to see a more vibrant Market East area, I think the arena proposal was insufficient to make that happen, and it had too much downside, including the impacts on Chinatown and Jefferson Station. There would be too many days with no events for the area to be hopping much of the time.

It seems that the arenas in Washington and Brooklyn have not fulfilled that promise. The construction of the Washington arena resulted in most of the Asian-American Chinatown residents being displaced due to gentrification, and the disappearance of most of the Asian restaurants.

I also found it wasteful to have separate arenas for the Sixers and Flyers. A single area has plenty of dates for two teams, and therefore fewer empty dates. While the sports complex area has not realized its potential, I think it can if all four teams are there. I think it's a wonderful and unique thing to have the sports complex all in one place.

I do like downtowns in big cities. If I ever went to Bruins or Celtics games, the TD Garden's downtown location would be very convenient for me, and that area is pretty vibrant (and better than it was years ago). But the original Boston Garden had been there since 1929, and when the new one was built, it didn't change the area all that much.

[zambonir]

The Brooklyn arena has done all right, the area (which also includes BAM) is pleasant enough and the real estate has definitely changed the neighborhood (whether that is for the better depends on if you lived or owned a biz there before, as it would be with Chinatown). But even Madison Square Garden (which is also a train station!) isn't that pleasant an area to eat or sleep in if you're there for a game or concert. And Market Street definitely feels most like DC.

The question now is, will Comcast finally deliver. Because they haven't up until this point. There was supposed to be a whole lot more than just one bar and a casino.

I wonder how much of an impact this non-Comcast project had. Kind of a wake-up call that might have brought them to the table? The council president was in on it too so you have to wonder what his role was in all of it.

Eagles, Phillies, Comcast Spectacor critique Hines mega-development proposal for...

[phillychuck]

A single area has plenty of dates for two teams, and therefore fewer empty dates.

While I generally agree with your argument, they are hoping to be home for 4 teams, including the WNBA and indoor LAX. WNBA is a pretty big deal in some other cities drawing more than 10,000 per game in about half the venues. The Indiana Fever (Caitlyn Clark) draw more than 17K.

[zambonir]

The new arena wasn't hoping to be home for four teams though. Two at most.

WNBA only plays 20 home games and doesn't overlap with the other two men's sports (barring championship runs). Wings only play nine home games. Even with WNBA added a single arena can easily accommodate women's hockey and continues to have some college basketball games too. The new arena would have had WNBA and college hoops (and presumably a lot more of the latter, at the expense of campus arenas) but it still would have been far too much arena.

Still hard to get a read on this. Did the Sixers really play the city (and Comcast) in some way? Maybe. But I also get the sense that even after they got everything they asked for they realized it was a flawed project if not a doomed business model, in addition to being unpopular (would have been more so once the construction and transit interruption and business closures in Chinatown started) and they are the ones that folded once the door was opened. It still wasn't going to price out for them overall, especially when the most important source of revenue is not season ticket holders but sponsors and luxury box renters who are paying year-round, not just for basketball games). And there's no reason to think Live Nation would have eagerly switched sides for concerts even if the new arena was nicer (also, hard to imagine Springsteen's trucks coming down 9th Street and Market, though obviously every city arena is set up for it).

[zambonir]

Gift link, it may actually let you read all the different posts (it's one of those constantly updated breaking news pages).

Comcast is going to have a minority share in the Sixers now (hey, they used to own the whole thing!) in addition to the two companies partnering on the WNBA bid (and arena).

https://share.inquirer.com/5D9FQr

[Philsmania]

Will the WFC be razed or will it become what the Spectrum once was? One drawback is that both teams will still have to go on long Mickey Mouse road trips every Holiday season.

[zambonir]

I believe they plan to raze it and build something else there (concert venue, hotel, retail, parking garage - it's already in the sketches) but not until the new one opens obviously.

That sort of thing is just a fact of life for most teams. The Spurs still leave town for three weeks for the rodeo every year and they are the only tenant. Everyone once in a while a playoff game loses out to a concert.