Should Kapler Be Fired?

[Philsmania]

I voted yes and, I believe, Klentak--and all his cronies--should go as well. This rebuild is failing and the buck has to stop with him. Better to course correct now then keep drifting the wrong direction. Time to go back to square one and start over again. Also, fire Almaraz and most of the scouts and promote Agonstinelli to scouting director. Sal is pretty much the only good baseball guy in the organization, except for maybe Wathan.

[ButlerBulldog]

With the Phillies’ improvement this season, he deserves to start 2019 as the manager. If the team struggles in April, however, he should be fired.

[nycphils]

Ridiculous. No.

[HopeSpringsEternal]

"give him another year", but honestly I think that he will need to be fired after that. He just isnt ready to manage a ML Team, he has ideas but honestly he has as many bad ideas as good

This pretty well sums up my feelings as well. Changing managers every year is not a recipe for success. But I never felt real good about the hire to start with, and the way this season is ending is reinforcing all those initial negative vibes.

[nycphils]

I think if there is an issue, it is with either the US scouting staff or the development staff. I think we would all feel drastically different about what the future is looking like if two of Moniak/Randolph/Haseley we looking like above average regulars or better, and/or if Bohm had gone to LWD this year and hit really well.

[Philsmania]

"give him another year", but honestly I think that he will need to be fired after that. He just isnt ready to manage a ML Team, he has ideas but honestly he has as many bad ideas as good

This pretty well sums up my feelings as well. Changing managers every year is not a recipe for success. But I never felt real good about the hire to start with, and the way this season is ending is reinforcing all those initial negative vibes.

Yes, but if something is glaringly a mistake, isn't it best to engage in a course correction sooner rather than later instead of engaging in a quixotic quest to see the mistake right itself?

P.S.: the Red Sox ditched Valentine after just the 2012 season and went from chumps to champs.

[mdougherty12]

"give him another year", but honestly I think that he will need to be fired after that. He just isnt ready to manage a ML Team, he has ideas but honestly he has as many bad ideas as good

This pretty well sums up my feelings as well. Changing managers every year is not a recipe for success. But I never felt real good about the hire to start with, and the way this season is ending is reinforcing all those initial negative vibes.

Yes, but if something is glaringly a mistake, isn't it best to engage in a course correction sooner rather than later instead of engaging in a quixotic quest to see the mistake right itself?

P.S.: the Red Sox ditched Valentine after just the 2012 season and went from chumps to champs.

Then the Red Sox went right back to chumps again in 2014.

[HopeSpringsEternal]

I think the differences between Valentine/Red Sox (a retread manager who inherited a good team) and Kapler/Phillies (a first time manager with limited managerial experience who inherited a rebuilding team) are wide enough to make this a poor comparison. I think Kapler is making efforts to improve, but I just don’t know if he’s the answer in the long run.

[zambonir]

I'm still all in on Kapler. He's a smart guy with an impeccable pedigree (Dodgers/Friedman/Maddon as well as Red Sox/Theo/Tito). I know there's no such thing as a collective fan base (or even a collective board opinion) but we've been crying for this franchise to get out of the dark ages forever, and were frustrated by its refusal to aggressively rebuild, and now we're experiencing both things and at the first sign of trouble the reflex is to assume that the weird and unfamiliar things are the reason for the trouble, and if the manager was more conventional things would be good. But we don't really know that. That conventional manager might not have won all those games in the first half either.

And the same goes for Klentak really. He wasn't hired off the street or even as some kind of inexperienced wunderkind (not that those guys haven't also succeeded). Doesn't mean he's not making mistakes (the biggest of which seems to be sticking with the top people he inherited).

I certainly hope we're not even talking about this next season. Obviously if we are, then Kapler will be on the clock, and Klentak will be in 2020.

People want to compare him to Chip Kelly but I think the Flyers are a better comparison. Firing the coach every two years never got them anywhere. And the path from hiring Hextall and overcoming flawed ownership involvement has been very slow.

[Philsmania]

Maddon never worked for the Dodgers.

[mdougherty12]

No, but Kapler played for Maddon in Tampa Bay at the end of his career.

[zambonir]

And Friedman was the Rays GM and is now the Dodgers GM (or President or whatever). Point is, this guy wasn't really that radical a hire. He's an ex-player (just like Charlie and Bowa and Amaro and Sandberg and Mackanin) who held a very high front office position in an elite organization (and was also a managerial candidate there). And more teams than not now hire people like him, even if they're not as flamboyant (I believe every manager hired this past off-season was a rookie). What he and Klentak are doing is not yet working as well as similar operations but I'd still put inherited talent and inherited infrastructure 1-2 on any list of why that is, and I'd also put Klentak's personnel decisions and analytics (or implementation of it) ahead of managerial decisions (though in this case they are largely inseparable from the analytics. Which is also why it wouldn't matter if you changed managers).

It's been a brutal run, no question about it, and totally understandable that the sheer weight of it would inspire the desire for a drastic response. Not necessarily the way to run an organization though.

[EDmuch]

I guess this is as good a place as any to note my experience with the Phillies' Facebook group. Seems right to post under this topic since they all hate Kapler so much. Anyway, that is the most ignorant collection of alleged baseball fans I have ever experienced. I finally had to quit the group because I just not stand the repeated ranting and screaming about Kapler. There was nothing of substance just ignorant ranting. The so-called "fans" on that Facebook page must be the "WIP crowd" to which I seen so many references in the past on this site. It is so much more pleasant to read the intelligent, diverse commentary of this Phils' community rather than the insane ranting of that Facebook crowd. So, thank all of you for being you.

[allentown]

The Phillies need to stick with Kapler and Klentak. Nothing kills any organization like continued management churn and the Phillies have done a lot of churning all across the organization.

[David_Criss]

The constant shifting in lineups and not giving a darn about defense is what has me so upset with Kapler and the GM, too. Whatever happened to relying on baseball smarts and instincts. Now a computer, ie robot decides how humans will play and react.
It doesn't take into account conditions, how the player is feeling, what is going on in their lives, etc.

I vividly recall watching the 09 World Series with a former Phillies player and minor league manager who managed many of the players at that time, in my living room. It was awesome and I am blessed to have PJ as a friend. Time after time, he would say he is going to hit it three steps to the left of where Rollins is playing, he can get to it or things like he needs to move back just a tiny bit on his back foot, etc. It was amazing how many times his predictions were spot on.

He knew baseball and he knew the players.

[bigegypt0417]

The Phillies need to stick with Kapler and Klentak. Nothing kills any organization like continued management churn and the Phillies have done a lot of churning all across the organization.

This is where I'm at as well...do you think Kapler would manage the way he has this season if he had players who were performing at higher levels?

I see a little bit of Joe Madden in him but as you can see as his levels of talent improved those off the beat strategies were also decreased.

[EastFallowfield]

If you gave Kapler the 1980 Phillies in their prime he'd 'care' a lot more about defense. If you gave him the 2007-11 lineup he'd probably have a more set lineup. There was not a lot of offensive or defensive talent on the team, it's yet to be seen if he disdains defense and set lineuips until you give him better players.

[fish]

The Phillies need to stick with Kapler and Klentak. Nothing kills any organization like continued management churn and the Phillies have done a lot of churning all across the organization.

Kapler also seems to be more willing, at least openly, to self evaluate and attempt to make corrections to his own approach too. Guys that are just going to keep doing what they're doing and expect a different result are the ones you need to get rid of quickly

[nycphils]

If you gave Kapler the 1980 Phillies in their prime he'd 'care' a lot more about defense. If you gave him the 2007-11 lineup he'd probably have a more set lineup. There was not a lot of offensive or defensive talent on the team, it's yet to be seen if he disdains defense and set lineuips until you give him better players.

This is probably the most concise, clear eyed summary of the situation...this management team may not end up winning, but they are clearly not morons.

[andyb]

Kapler also seems to be more willing, at least openly, to self evaluate and attempt to make corrections to his own approach too. Guys that are just going to keep doing what they're doing and expect a different result are the ones you need to get rid of quickly

Kapler did quiet the bullpen changes a bit during the middle of the season. He never really got settled into any lineups mainly because he did not have 8 clear starters. Whether he hurt players like Herrera through his managing is harder to tell, but he did adapt some on the bullpen side.

Any manager that does not lose the clubhouse deserves a couple of years. If there is not improvement from our current year next year that might be a danger sign. One year is not enough to judge however. He is a smart guy. Hopefully he improves through experience.