Phils & Covid

[zambonir]

Yeah I posted this elsewhere (I think non-Phillies news) because I didn't want to dig up one of these threads again (though this wasn't the one where we swung into politics again). I agree it is unlikely that stipulation will still be in place by then. If it is it means we're having a bad summer.

Also yeah the Phillies did reach 85% by the end of the season, but we certainly never heard if Nola or Bohm gave in, or if Wheeler or Harper were in the first place. And obviously a lot of roster turnover too. They haven't set the rules for this year but if they are taking it seriously it should include a booster requirement (as is already in place for coaches).

And Didi is still claiming the vaccine helped cause his bone spurs (if you read full Athletic article).

[LoneStarPhan]

Texas Rangers open season in Toronto without unvaccinated players, per Canadian law Read more at: https://www.star-telegram.com/sports/mlb/texas-rangers/article259306409.html#storylink=cpy

I agree that the vaccination requirement may well be gone by the time the Phillies head to Toronto, but evidently it is still in place now. The above is from the Fort Worth Star Telegram this past week.

The article states that Unvaccinated players will be placed on MLB’s restricted list when their teams travel to Toronto. Those players would receive no pay or service time for the length of the series in Canada.

[zambonir]

Come to think of it it is certainly possible that the restriction will still be in place, unless they specifically waive it for America or country-by-country. The virus is still serious enough, and vaccination rates still low enough, that a blanket reversal seems unlikely.

They could also work on an exemption and testing requirement for MLB players specifically, but the optics of that would be bad. But they had it last year. Unlike America Canada is also more willing to take the position of "not vaccinated? tough!" Whereas even NYC is eventually going to cave on its (admittedly very inconsistent) policy that's still affecting Kyrie.

Would love to see the union sqawk about this one, when they're unwilling to have a mandate. Not exactly a small issue if you are an unvaccinated player on an AL East team and make a lot of money (or are a fringe player getting service time for the first time - might get you sent down, even).

Yankees may be without ‘a few guys’ in Toronto due to COVID vaccination status

[zambonir]

Some comedy (found via Matt W's Twitter)

Phillies have agreed to terms with RP Sprock Munchner, who constructed the mock gallows outside the Capitol during the Jan. 6 riots. Munchner told reporters he does not believe his "vaccines are cucked" neck tattoo will be an issue in the clubhouse. He posted a 12.32 ERA in 2021

— phylan ( @Phylan ) March 14, 2022

[zambonir]

Well, someone probably didn't get his flu shot at least

The Phillies’ Zach Eflin considers himself ahead of schedule and on track for...

[BaseballCat]

From what I have read, this years flu vaccine was not that effective on the strains of flu that were common in the US. So we may not be able to say that, but many youngins don't get it.

[zambonir]

Yeah and even when it works reasonably well you can still get it - but it also typically reduces the severity/duration when you do.

[LoneStarPhan]

Unvaxed to play in NYC.

Unvaccinated Mets and Yankees players cleared for exemption to work in NYC.

[schillingfan]

Does that apply to Kylie Irving, too?

[bkox]

Does that apply to Kylie Irving, too?

Yes

NYC expanding vaccine exemption to city-based entertainers, clearing Kyrie...

[zambonir]

I personally would like to see the mandates stay, it's supposed to be a stick, not a carrot. It never entirely made sense that they could only apply it to home teams. Like, the regulatory power they claimed was tied to employment but aren't visting players de facto NYC-based employees when they play there (earning wages, paying tax)?

I'm glad things are safer (at least for now) and I just spent two hours in a largely unmasked - but vax-required - indoor space. But every refusenik is still just hurting herd immunity and helping variants. We'll surely still see a lot of positives this season, the question is will there even be testing, or quarantines required?

[LoneStarPhan]

True that those not getting vaccinated have contributed to more cases of COVID and at least indirectly to the death of others.

[schillingfan]

I imagine Covid will be like the flu. New variants with new shots required every year and killing a number of immune compromised people.If I could vaccinate the world.

[zambonir]

probably, but right now it's still like the 1918 flu. could be another couple of years before true endemicity and relatively easy annual management (and then half the world won't get vaccinated anyway. the flu is actually peaking right now for that same reason at a time when it's usually almost over. vax wasn't great this year and vax rates are low).

[zambonir]

If we want to shift that topic back here.

2022 Phillies Major League Regular Season Discussion

It is fascinating that people were pushed towards the J and J vaccine versus the MRNA vaccines. It was pretty clear early on that J and J had a slightly higher risk of these clots (though still ridiculously low) and a lower efficacy rate. It does seem that the "lack of track record" political talking points won out over the extensive testing on the MRNA vaccines.

It is just a shame that this became a political football. There is a legitimate argument about individual rights versus collective societal obligations. But science is supposed to dictate the answer to those arguments and science says the MRNA vaccines are perfectly safe. Hopefully they figure out a way to effectively recalibrate them for the Fall as their biggest weakness is not adapting to all these variations.

Suggestion - probably time to move this to one of the OT threads. Can't remember what our COVID-specific threads were but it possibly belongs there rather than the political thread.

[zambonir]

2022 Phillies Major League Regular Season Discussion

The best way to get players to get vaccinated is to give them copies of the studies that show long COVID can lead to erectile dysfunction. That'll motivate them!

The other thing is these guys do terrible things to their bodies every day because it's just part of baseball, often because a doctor tells them it's okay (and sometimes despite being told it's not). Greenies, PEDs, cortisone, getting shots to play through pain, Vicodin, surgeries a civilian would never have. If a doctor told JT there was an experimenal shot that could restore ligament tissue in his knees to avoid needing a replacement in 20 years he'd probably take it. But nobody would be on TV telling him not to do that.

[zambonir]

Well I'll keep trying not to clutter the general thread even if you guys won't!

2022 Phillies Major League Regular Season Discussion

There were times and places where J&J was the only available vaccine.

It was pushed more for ease of use (1 shot) and easier storage requirements (less cold). That is independent of the conspiracy theories around the MRNA vaccines though. If one's argument was that those vaccines were untested, then there needed to be a fallback to the more traditional vaccine.

There was still a use for J&J early on because of convenience. That is just not the reason some people used it however which was often a misguided (scientifically) attempt at safety.

The J&J was strongly recommended for the people who most urgently needed to be vaccinated, and in some cases because of supply issues with the others. At the time, even for healthier people, it felt like a great thing to be able to get the single shot. Then eventually it turned out to be less protective (on top of the greater, but still very small, side effects) and people were told to switch to the others for their boosters anyway.

[andyb]

From the start it had lower efficacy rates. It was just easier to get because it was 1 shot and could be sent to doctor's offices and pharmacies with regular refrigeration. Not sure it was ever pushed. It was more pitched as an acceptable option because it is easier.

This is independent of the point I was making (and admit I need to figure out how to reply from one thread to the other). Anti-vaccine types made a case that the MRNA vaccines were untested in the long term (which has to be true since they are new but does ignore the extensive testing and the 30-year history of the development of these types of vaccines).

If your only reason is the MRNA vaccine is untested, then you really had to go to the J&J vaccine which was much more similar to the traditional vaccines that just about all of us take and are mandatory for many schools. People were pushed to the less effective J&J vaccine in many cases because of unsubstantiated MRNA vaccine theories.

[zambonir]

pic.twitter.com/mmiP8RxS90

— Justin Klugh ( @justin_klugh ) July 12, 2022

(oops I guess that graphic violates board language policy, click for yourself)

[zambonir]

(and admit I need to figure out how to reply from one thread to the other).

you just quote in the old thread and then cut and paste it into new. But I believe A-Town is a mod so he could have moved your previous post and replied here too. I know it's hard to move them all.