Phillies Spring Training Discussion 2024

[BostonRoss]

I think longer spring training makes more money for the teams and also allows time for the World Baseball Classic. Probably not much of a baseball reason for it to be this long.

[zambonir]

Well, the spring training schedule greatly predates the World Baseball Classic, though perhaps that would stand in the way of any changes now. I think it's just the way it's always been, and the main reason it was that way is because the players didn't used to actually show up in baseball shape (let alone start showing up weeks or even a month early).

I can't imagine it's really that lucrative for most teams given the smaller crowds and lack of higher-end revenue streams, especially now that they have to pay everyone (except the major leaguers, ironically).

But for the pitchers, the current length is still pretty necessary I'd think. Everyone else is just filler.

I'm sure many other teams also had a more interesting final week of spring training where real jobs were on the line, and more people with an actual chance to win one. The Phillies went into camp with all nine starting spots and three of the four bench spots locked, with only the Rojas question potentially opening up a spot (as well as affecting the bench picture). In the end the fringe 40-man players and NRIs were never really in the mix (and even Jake Cave couldn't win himself a job).

[Austinfan]

Hitters want 70 or so PA to get into a groove, pitchers need to gradually build arm strength, and it allows them to give minior leaguers a "look see" against higher quality competition than most will face in the minors this year.

[zambonir]

Only two hitters have had more than 50 ABs and those were Rojas and Merrifield. For a veteran 40 seems to be the magic number but I'm sure it's better to only play half-games (or take days off) than to cram those in to a shorter ST. I've definitely seen guys say that by March 15 or so they are ready to start playing real games but it does take longer for both types of pitchers to be in "dress rehearsal" mode. And 30 ABs wouldn't be enough.

[Philsmania]

Hard to believe that today is the spring training finale already. March went by fast.

Weather report still doesn't look good for Thursday. I'm thinking the opener is played on Friday again this year.

[Callison]

Hell of a decision on Rojas, which at this point looks like sticking an out into the lineup. This is sposed to be what's best for Rojas, too.

I'm guessing they want Long to oversee his progress everyday and they must think the new approach is just about to work for him.

Good luck, Johan!

[xogfog]

Well look, there are enough bombers in this lineup that I think we can afford to have a light-hitting great CF in the lineup. Rojas was exposed in the playoffs, but nobody else was hitting either (at least in games 6 and 7), so that could be explained as rookie jitters or just being over-matched at his age. He hit .300 in a small sample size during the regular season last year, so the bright lights may have gotten to him in the playoffs. If that's the case, he should be better in subsequent playoffs as he grows and matures. I just hope with his speed that he was working on bunting all offseason, because he really struggled with that.

[David_Criss]

Really hope Rojas doesn't become the next Dom Brown, Scott Kingery, Nick Williams......I know that isn't an apples to apples comparison, but this is a lot of pressure for a kid who IMO should be at AAA. Last year, he was having his best offensive year at AA when he got called up. That and his defense should give him enough confidence, but what if he totally bombs at the plate? That could really mess with his head and this is a huge stage.
After hearing about the Cave trade, I thought for sure Clemens was making the team and Pache would start in center with Rojas getting a little time at AAA.

[Austinfan]

If Schwarber has to play lF b/c Harper is DH, you want Pache or Rojas in CF, not Marsh - b/c Marsh flanked by Schwarber and Castellanos would be one of the worst defensive OFs in the majors.

With the cost and durability of pitchers, you want the best fielding team you can without seriously deep sixing your offense.

[bkox]

If Schwarber has to play lF b/c Harper is DH, you want Pache or Rojas in CF, not Marsh

I kinda agree.. but if Harper's back means he needs to DH for a couple weeks.. they arent just going to bench Marsh

[zambonir]

Rojas has actually shown clear progress, if still not dramatic progress (and all SSS). .170/446 OPS overall but 4/18 (.222) lately and strike out rate is improved.

I don't think this is very complicated. He makes more outs on defense than he gives up on offense. If you can play guys who do the reverse (Bohm, Castellanos) you can play him too.

I believe Call is also correct that they'd rather give him another month with Long then send him down to AAA. With the way things have shaken out, they can give him strategic days off (no RHPs and even the tougher lefties) for a while too.

[andyb]

Schwarber is not going to play the infield. He'll play LF and somebody like Merrifield or Bohm will play 1B. This is not fantasy baseball. The Phillies are not going to stick Schwarber at 1B without ever playing him there. That did not go well when Boston tried it.

[zambonir]

Really hope Rojas doesn't become the next Dom Brown, Scott Kingery, Nick Williams......I know that isn't an apples to apples comparison, but this is a lot of pressure for a kid who IMO should be at AAA.

I think Rojas is the next Bryson Stott. If he's not quite ready, he'll go back down and come back up. Williams actually spent forever in AAA, was not rushed at all. Brown got pressed into service after a Vic injury but if anything was not used enough (and got jerked around in terms of both role and position) once he came back up for good. Kingery is the only one who should have gone back to AAA but didn't due to a combination of his contract and injuries.

Stott was not especially good in 2022 and we got to the World Series. Of course he was also just as bad in that WS as Rojas was in the 2023 post-season.

It's not gonna be that complicated, it Rojas completely tanks (.550 OPS or below) he won't be in Philly by May 15th (or maybe even April 28th) If he's .600 or higher, playing his usual defense, and still having a good approach, he stays.

I personally think he's going to hit, opposing teams are not going to pitch (let alone scout him) the same way they did in the playoffs, and all the pitchers are still going to be finding their groove as well. If he'd come into spring training with no plan to work on and change some things, he probably would have hit in spring training too - but it wouldn't have paid off for him long-term.

[bkox]

Schwarber is not going to play the infield.

I think he meant LF.. Just used a small l with a cap F lF

[zambonir]

In his (presumably) final 33 PA of the spring, Johan Rojas only struck out twice. He struck out 7 times in the first 24 PA

— Baseball Paul ( @paul_boye ) March 25, 2024

Since @paul_boye tweeting made me looking it up. In Statcast tracked games, Rojas swings and misses by date:
2/24: 4
2/28: 1
3/1: 1
3/9: 1
3/16: 1
3/24: 1

— Matt Winkelman ( @Matt_Winkelman ) March 25, 2024

[Austinfan]

Typo, I meant LF (small l). Marsh between Schwarber and Castellanos could be ugly.

[andyb]

Anything with Schwarber in the outfield would be ugly. Not really Marsh's fault though. Merrifield/Marsh/Castellanos is seviceable and I suspect we'll see it a fair amount.

The issue with this roster construction is they really don't need Pache if Rojas plays every day. I think his playing time will come in CF at the expense of Rojas but none of that really makes the Phillies better. And he'll pinch run once a week but that seems a waste of a roster spot. The Phillies will probably say to the press that they made the decision because of defense, but the reality is we will not take Castellanos out and if we pull Merrifield in the late innings more than 20% of the time I'd be surprised. We made this decision to protect Pache for better or worse.

[zambonir]

I think we're going to see more of Pache and less of Merrifield, who didn't even play that much LF in spring training. Pache/Rojas against Fried or Sale, for instance - try and win a low-scoring game against tough LHP that way. And maybe Merrifield plays 2B in one of those games.

And then they can go Merrifield/Marsh against tough RHP once a week to give Rojas a break. Or play Merrifield at 3B occasionally rather than Sosa if they want offense over defense (since Bohm doesn't hit RHP). Pache could also play RF once a week.

If Rojas is a lock to stay in MLB by June 1 then Pache probably doesn't finish the season in Philadelphia, it's not so much that they don't want to lose him as they don't want to lose him if they're not sure about Rojas. Whereas, if Rojas flops by May 1 and goes back to AAA Pache ends up starting 4-5 times a week.

[andyb]

And then they can go Merrifield/Marsh against tough RHP once a week to give Rojas a break

I think we'll see this half the time against RHP. Against LHP we'll see Rojas all the time and Pache half the time. We are just going to see more of Merrifield than we want against RHP if Rojas does not hit them well.

[DurhamBull]

Typo, I meant LF (small l). Marsh between Schwarber and Castellanos could be ugly.

Schwarber between Stott and Bohm would be even worse!