Phillies Sign OF Kyle Schwarber, 4 Yrs, $79 Million

[zambonir]

Well of course he's not getting better, but the two guys we just signed probably aren't either.

The chart is a little confusing (but also so consistent) because Matt went with more statistically relevant groupings of multiple seasons. Year-to-year Hoskins is 158-128-112-138-127. Does he have one more 130+ season in him? Let's hope. Will he be 115 by 2024? Yeah, probably, but so will the new guys.

And who knows, if they had actually stuck with Hoskins at LF he might not have been any worse than Schwarber or Castellanos, though those guys did play more difficult positions earlier in their careers. Not saying they should have kept him there (nor can they put him there now). Obviously they shouldn't have moved him at all.

I think Atown has it right, you've got to trade Rhys next off-season (or this deadline if things don't work out). He's probably a little better than people realize, but I get the appeal of the shiny new toys, and also, as the ostensible homegrown leader of this team along Nola, things have not exactly worked out.

[nycphils]

I’d be willing to deal Hoskins in a deal for a SP or CF who’ve got 2 or more seasons of control left. Will they find such a deal? Don’t know.

[allentown]

I don't think we need two years of control left. I think we have our homegrown CF for next season.

[andyb]

We are kind of stuck with the new guys though. We added 130ish bats now to Hoskins. In 2 years do we add another 115ish bat to what we have? Or find another 130+ player somewhere else?

[Austinfan]

This is why Manning MUST turn around the farm system quickly, you can't buy your way out of a bottom third farm system for very long.
Hoskins for futures isn't the worst outcome next winter, with the DH in the NL, there will be more potential partners.

But you need guys like Vierling, Maton, Muzzioti, Rojas, Garcia, O'hoppe and the young arms to start arriving next year and in a steady stream over the next 2-3 years. A rebound by Kingery or Haseley would work wonders. Some young RP arms (SD is looking promising) would allow us to let a couple of our one year guys walk.

We'll shed $30M next year in Didi and Segura, but we need Stott to take SS until Garcia is ready (if ever), then move to 2B or 3B. Bohm settling in at 3B would help - but you can see the problem - where some teams have young starters and top prospects behind them - we have old starters and question marks behind them.

[allentown]

where some teams have young starters and top prospects behind them - we have old starters and question marks behind them

Yes, that a serious problem, which stems from a decade of inadequate scouting and player development. That is the bread and butter of the baseball professionals in the organization. They consistently failed us, although there are signs that things are turning around. For now, patching with FA is about the best we can do.

[phillychuck]

This is why Manning MUST turn around the farm system quickly, you can't buy your way out of a bottom third farm system for very long.

It would strengthen your argument if you got the name of the farm director correct..Mattingly, not Manning. Manning's are that other sport.

[zambonir]

This is why Manning MUST turn around the farm system quickly, you can't buy your way out of a bottom third farm system for very long.

Mattingly. But it's no easier to turn around a farm system "quickly" as it is to buy your way out.

Hopefully the combination of Mattingly's system and Barber's picks will do what the last four scouting and dev people (combined) could not, with Stott and Bohm at least salvaging the end of Almaraz's run. But it's not like Abel and Painter are going to be able to just step in for Wheeler and Nola either.

[Austinfan]

Drafting and signings have been subpar, but I think the primary problem has been a chaotic development system in which players get different messages at each level as they rise in the system. Without a coherent approach, that reflects both a general philosophy but is also tailored to individual players (i.e. don't take contact hitters and try to turn them into upper cut power hitters, make them contact hitters with more power), prospects seemed to flatline in AA and AAA on a consistent basis. Were they all that bad? Or is something rotten in the state of Florida?

Phillies have a strong contingent of prospects in A ball and GCL this year, top systems seem to be able to launch a couple shooting stars each year - prospects who fly through their systems and to the majors. Who was the last Philly prospect to do so?

[phillychuck]

Matt Vierling. Aaron Nola. Cole Hamels earlier.

[allentown]

If we're going earlier -- Kevin Stocker, without whom there is no Phillies 1993 trip to WS and no Bobby Abreu as a Phillie. We both forgot the most recent, not entirely successful, example : Bohm -- drafted 2018, Phillies starting 3B second half of 2020.

[andyb]

It used to be pretty common for high round college pitchers to blow through the minors. Pat Combs made his minor league debut the year after he was drafted and made the majors at the end of that first year. Bruce Ruffin had 2 half seasons in High A and AA before his debut.

I guess Abel and Painter are on the polished end for HS draft picks, but I expect the Phillies to manage their innings and game their service time so we won't see them until late 2023/2024 respectively at the earliest. Maybe even 2024/2025.

[zambonir]

I just don't think Bohm (or Haseley) really blew through the minors. Haseley was rushed due to Herrera, Bohm would have at least had a month of proper AAA ABs in a full 2020 season, if not a half-season. Kingery is another answer but did he earn it with his performance rising through the system or just the spring training small sample?

Too soon to say Vierling, he did nothing to earn his call-up (based on his AAA numbers) last year, they just needed a body and people ahead of him (Haseley, Moniak) were worse or unavailable. If he really wins a starting job (or even succeeds over 4-500 ABs), then yeah, he did it.

[allentown]

Kingery moved slower than Bohm. Drafted in 2015 (and got 250 AB that season), didn't make it to Philly until 2018. Another fast rise and fall: Cody Asche -- drafted 2011 in Philly 2013.

[schillingfan]

It used to be pretty common for high round college pitchers to blow through the minors. Pat Combs made his minor league debut the year after he was drafted and made the majors at the end of that first year. Bruce Ruffin had 2 half seasons in High A and AA before his debut.

I guess Abel and Painter are on the polished end for HS draft picks, but I expect the Phillies to manage their innings and game their service time so we won't see them until late 2023/2024 respectively at the earliest. Maybe even 2024/2025.

Don’t forget Randy Wolf. He was drafted out of college in the second round 1997 and made his debut in 1999. He had a 22 WAR and was one of my favorite Phillies over the bad years.