Phillies Prospect Lists

[andyb]

But we are still rated 25th. Our problem is not having enough prospects, not that they are mostly in A ball or lower.

[phillychuck]

Painter, Abel, McGarry, Rojas, O'Hoppe, Viars, and Lee seem legit. There are four or five younger guys in the DSL who are showing promise. I'm sad so many players I had hopes for before covid seem to have faded or disappeared--Ortiz, L.Garcia, Haseley, Morales, Crouse, Wilson, Y Garcia, Baylor, Martin, Simmons, Muzziotti, Romero, etc. I'm encouraged by most of the recent graduates: Vierling, Hall, Stott, Appel, and even Moniak show some promise.

[zambonir]

There is much reason for optimism compared to the past five years. Which is still not the same thing as catching up to the competition.

COVID/the lost season and injuries seems to have hit hard as well, but that's a level playing field.

Hard to think of the 30 year-old Appel as a graduating prospect even if he technically is, and is also controllable (so long as they keep him on the 40). He feels more like a AAAA guy or someone who came back from Asia, even if he merely came back from retirement.

[andyb]

Painter, Abel, McGarry, Rojas, O'Hoppe, Viars, and Lee seem legit. There are four or five younger guys in the DSL who are showing promise

This is all true. But it can be equally true that the number of these legit higher end prospects is below average. Maybe we are average in the number of high end prospects, but one cannot also dismiss that our prospects are weighted to lower levels.

I think there has been some improvement in the system this year. McGarry and O'Hoppe are picks that are now seen as top 100 or close to that and they weren't a year ago. That is good. Every team has a couple of recent number one picks though so where Painter and Abel are ranked is nice (that they are healthy) but not special compared to other teams.

We can be better and improving at the same time we should be rated below average.

[allentown]

Yes, Yhoswar Garcia and Ortiz seem like costly flops at this point. Yhoswar still strikes me as a bizarre signing and the early cheering about what a great CF he is, at least somewhat beside the point: reminds me way too much of Tocci, who was a plus defensive CF, who just never could hit. If he can't hit better than a .206 average at age 20 in low-A, his great defensive skills are not going to see an MLB field. Our LA scouting effort is not up to par. Strange, you'd think the guy you give the bulk of your international bonus budget to would be scouted and followed intensively by multiple scouts/supervisors and yet the Commissioner's Office knew Yhoswar's true age and the Phillies did not.

[zambonir]

Yhoswar Garcia and Ortiz seem like costly flops at this point

This would seem to strike at the heart of things: MLB (I presume older) ranking has Ortiz and Garcia as our #11 and #14 prospects, with Muzziotti (who seemed like such a lucky get at the time) at #19. If they and Luis Garcia (#7) are possibly flops and Crouse (#5) and Morales (#9) are at least lower-ceiling than hoped, it's no wonder the system ranking is so low even if the five best guys (1-4 plus McGarry at 8) look good.

[bigegypt0417]

With the inevitability of an international draft will change the dynamic and should give team more access to all players. This system is terrible.

[nycphils]

The system is terrible, but we are also poor (and have been for a long time) at exploiting said system. Others don’t seem to have so much trouble - I don’t understand the enduring love (and protection) for Sal.

[Philsmania]

I think I've said this before but Agostinelli is actually a holdover from Lee Thomas's administration.. He's served under five Phillies club presidents (Giles, Montgomery, Gillick, MacPhail and now Dombrowski), six Phillies GM's (Thomas, Wade, Gillick, Amaro, Klentak and now Fuld) and four Phillies scouting directors (Arbuckle, Wolever, Almaraz and now Barber). Even if he did a just average job, it would be remarkable that he's stuck around in his position for so long.

[andyb]

If the theory is that Sal and his team are good scouts, but just lousy at negotiating with the better prospects, then the draft might help us. Certainly we have been mediocre about valuing our top prospect, often overpaying players like Ortiz and Luis Garcia. The draft will help there. I am just not sold that we are very good at identifying the best players lately.

[Philsmania]

I recall that when the Phillies signed Ortiz, MLB's scouting community was rather quickly dialing back its previously glowing perception of him but the Phillies had already made their deal and were basically stuck.

Garcia probably should have bought a house in Lakewood back in 2019 considering how much time he has spent there and then flipped it for good money after this season. He's got to be the Blueclaws' all-time leader in games played.

[zambonir]

Sal doesn't actually work for the scouting director. His immediate superior in past seasons had been an assistant GM (Benny Looper, Minetti) and now it is Velandia. Barber doesn't have an assistant GM title but reports directly to Dombrowski.

My guess is we may vastly overrate the extent to which Sal decides who gets signed (as well as who gets paid), though when the front office makes those calls they are obviously only as good as the scouts. I imagine he sticks around because he's more like an office manager than a general manager... and they are terrified of having to completely change the system... probably with good reason given how hard it's been for them to do that on the domestic side, and then you have the challenge of distance and politics and losing relationships (though none that seem worth keeping, lately).

[Squire]

Interesting. Barber does not even report to Fuld?

[nycphils]

Realistically, how much worse can it get? A subscription to BA would do a better job, and probably drastically so.

[zambonir]

He may have last year. Or he may have reported to Minnitti as well. That's how it was under Klentak too, nobody reported directly to the GM let alone the President.

So yeah, having Barber report directly to DD makes him a de facto Assistant GM, a title Arbuckle actually had. Or even higher up than that. Probably less an indication of Barber's power as Dombrowski's areas of involvement (i.e. the biggest decisions, whereas Fuld is more infrastructure and analytics).

Phillies, Dave Dombrowski announce significant front office changes

[andyb]

Sort of an updated prospect list and trade thoughts:

Midseason Phillies Prospect List and Trade Thoughts

[gmwannabe]

anyone know what the story is with Crouse? I know he is injured and hasn't pitched. also some talk on him going on the 60 day. Shoulder or TJ?
gm

[bkox]

anyone know what the story is with Crouse? I know he is injured and hasn't pitched. also some talk on him going on the 60 day. Shoulder or TJ?
gm

PLaced on the 60 day IL on July 15th.. so not eligible to come off until mid Sept. Right biceps tendinitis is the injury

[gmwannabe]

thanks b

[schooldoc]

Keith Law ranked Andrew Painter 46th in his midseason top 60 prospects update, released this morning at The Athletic. Mick Abel was among his 10 "honorable mentions," implying he'd be in the 61-70 range.