Phillies News and Discussion 2025 Season

[andyb]

He was +2.7 last year and this year is barely negative due to defensive stats that vary considerably. Not saying he is an All Star, but I believe he is a legit MLB starting catcher and we did mostly develop him.

The whole discussion is about why we did not keep him - and that is because we played JT almost every day and the potential benefit of getting Marsh outweighed the value of what we saw as a catcher who would not play that much.

Now who won the trade? Only time will tell. The WAR of Marsh has been better, though situationally helped by not playing much against LHP and also playing more LF (where he is positive defensively) than CF (where he is negative). Marsh also is a negative WAR player this season just like O'Hoppe and he still is helped in that stat by not playing much against LHP.

[zambonir]

Yeah the O'Hoppe deal was a situation where the Phillies dealt from a strength to address a weakness, and did so successfully. Plus they were trading future WAR for present WAR. Angels may yet win the trade but probably not by the time they are both free agents anyway, because the appeal of Marsh was always that he was young himself, and also played a premium defensive position.

[dcsman]

Mick Abel for Felix Bautista and Cedric Mullins? One former GM thinks it’s possible:

Former MLB GM proposes trade that would allow Phillies to land closer, center...

[Florida_Sunshine]

I don’t think Mullins is much of an improvement.

[Austinfan]

The problem wasn't the trade per se, but the drafting failure that made the trade necessary, and the inability to develop a catcher given a 5 year window.

[allentown]

I don’t think Mullins is much of an improvement.

He has awful D rating. I don't think he can really be considered a CF. His OPS+ for this season is 116 but his D pulls his rWAR down to only +0.4 for the season. Marsh still slightly negative rWAR (--0.2) but doing great recently, while Mullins started strong but has been rather awful the past month. No thanks.

[allentown]

Very true. It is astonishing how awful the Phillies have been in both draft/international signings and development of OFs. One could easily believe they don't have a clue what they are looking for when evaluating young OF prospects in general and CF candidates in particular. This is a problem going back many decades, GMs, and scouts and scouting directors. Some of their top bonus choices have been beyond laughable.

[zambonir]

Agreed. Especially since he's LH. You'd have to trade Marsh or Kepler, and they already have Crawford.

That's the problem with almost everyone available, nobody's really that good.

It's actually astonishing how lucky the Phillies were to not sign any of the FA OFs either. Of course Tucker still would have been nice but at an untenable trade cost. Which comes back to the failure to have farm depth.

I'm sure they can get a relief arm and a RH bat though.

[Philsmania]

Very true. It is astonishing how awful the Phillies have been in both draft/international signings and development of OFs. One could easily believe they don't have a clue what they are looking for when evaluating young OF prospects in general and CF candidates in particular. This is a problem going back many decades, GMs, and scouts and scouting directors. Some of their top bonus choices have been beyond laughable.

Yeah, Pat Burrell really is the only one the last five decades, perhaps Marlon Byrd and Michael Bourn who had successful careers mostly elsewhere were two others who count. But Burrell is really the only one who actually helped us (aside from being an asset in a consequential trade like Bourn who helped get us Lidge). I got to imagine that the scouting and development staff has had 100+% turnover during those 50+ years making it all the more mysterious. So many flameouts...Jeff Stone, Wendell Magee, Domonic Brown and even guys we traded away like Michael Taylor and Anthony Gose, just to name a few.

Speaking of Gose, he's still kicking around at AAA Syracuse (Mets) after converting to pitching in 2016.

[zambonir]

Not anymore (and, in an odd coincidence...)

Both of those guys had upward mobility clauses as of over a month ago so I assume nobody wanted them in MLB and now the Mets don't either. Perhaps this gives them a chance to find a better situation on a new minor league deal.