Phillies Hot Stove 2022-23

[zambonir]

To me right now it's Maton vs. Hall. And Maton was actually better.

0.6 WAR, .341 OBP, .514 SLG, 138 OPS+, 5 HRs in 72 ABs

vs.

0.4 WAR, .282 OBP, .522 SLG, 121 OPS+, 9 HRs in 136 ABs

SSS/likely not sustainable, but you can say the same about Hall, what he did wasn't actualy that impressive and he would likely be exposed further (and the Phillies obviously knew it too).

Put Maton in RF against RHP with Vierling on the other days and just let Castellanos DH. And either of them can also spell Schwarber (or Hoskins). And Maton could also play 3B against RHPs if they don't want Sosa some days.

By all means, they can bring in competition for both Maton and Vierling in spring training, but they don't want to spend too much $ and the players who would cost $ probably don't want the job (since they'd be benched or traded once Harper came back).

I just don't think they are trying to platoon Stott. Or Marsh for that matter. And not Bohm either. Sosa will just get his 1-2 starts moving around, though if he's as good as the Phillies hope he is they'll also consider trading him in the end.

[andyb]

To me right now it's Maton vs. Hall. And Maton was actually better

In the major leagues in a small sample. Hall was a bit better in AAA in larger samples for both players. Maton of course is much more useful defensively.

There is room for both of them though with Harper out. Those 2 plus a bunch of AAAA Spring Training invites will likely compete for the last 2 roster spots assuming everyone is healthy and that Stubbs, Sosa, and Vierling have the other bench spots.

[zambonir]

There is room for both of them though with Harper out. Those 2 plus a bunch of AAAA Spring Training invites will likely compete for the last 2 roster spots assuming everyone is healthy and that Stubbs, Sosa, and Vierling have the other bench spots.

Oh, right, I keep thinking four-man bench but technically there's a starting spot open. I just think a Vierling/Maton RF platoon with Nick as DH 80% of the time is still probably a better team than Nick in RF with Hall and others at DH.

[andyb]

I have no idea whether Maton is really much better than Castellanos in the outfield though. He is younger and runs a bit better, but we really have not seen enough to see if his defensive instincts are any good there in a large sample. Probably a marginal difference at best though Maton could improve (and he should work on it if the ability to play both infield and outfield is how he gets a job).

[Philsmania]

One week after the Phillies reportedly agreed to terms with Walker, the signing still has not been announced yet.

[andyb]

They need to move somebody off the 40 for Walker. They could just be taking their time to do that. Maybe making a minor trade instead of a DFA. We really don't need 4 catchers on the 40 for instance.

[zambonir]

I reckon Castellanos - those occasional post-season highlights aside - is so bad that Maton would be better even with his limited experience. And Vierling is too course. It's not an equal trade offensively but you're not actually taking Castellanos' bat out of the line-up, only Hall's.

Of course if you get the 2022 Castellanos at the plate, you'd want to platoon him with a LHB regardless of where he plays (including DH). But that's unlikely to happen.

Regarding Walker, if you follow MLBTR a weeklong delay may be at the high end, but it's still not unusual. Just looking at the recent ones, Kenley Jansen was 6 days. Vince Velasquez was 7. Josh Bell was 6. OTOH Ross Stripling was two hours.

[Austinfan]

Maton only has had 1700 minor league PA, that's probably a lost season.
In two ML stints (216 PA), he has a RC+ of 108, and 1.0 WAR.
His defense could use work, but again, lack of minor league time and coaching.
But there is upside left.

Vierling had only 1173 minor league PA, though he did play 3 years of college ball (731 PA).
Again, about a minor season short of what you'd want him to play.
434 PA, RC+ 88, 0.5 WAR, probably average to below average in center, but above average in RF.

What I like about both are short, compact strokes.
Given that anyone who'd be willing to take a platoon/bench role is unlikely to give you more than 1 WAR, I'd just as soon go in house, not just to save money, but b/c of upside, if just one of Sosa, Maton and Vierling show starter talent, you're way ahead of the game.

[zambonir]

More likely than not they are going in-house, perhaps with a little competition on a minor league deal. It's more a question of Hall vs. Maton, or Hall vs. a more experienced bat, or Maton vs. a more experienced OF.

Profar is listed as a SH and is primarily a LHB. That, combined with his ability to play everywhere and his track record, certainly makes him more appealing. But still a luxury item - and he's had enough shaky offensive seasons that he's not necessarily that much better than the internal options either.

[Philsmania]

Maybe I am reading too much into Walker not yet being official. I guess as a Phillies phan, I always expect the sky to fall at some point and for the cloud with the silver lining to be a funnel cloud.

[zambonir]

Serious question though, when was the last time a major leaked free agent signing, where the terms and years - something the Phillies almost never reveal! - were already out there, didn't actually happen? For any team? Or even the last failed physical on a minor free agent signing?

Now, we can remember a few where the signings did happen and probably shouldn't have (or the medicals weren't thorough).

Andy could be right as well. Maybe they are looking for a bullpen or bench piece in exchange for a catcher. They might also be willing to move on from Sanchez if they don't think he's a useful depth starter (and have Painter as well as Falter, plus the other kids, ahead of him). One imagines Miller could work his way onto the 40 too (thereby beating out Sanchez as a third lefty reliever).

[Philsmania]

Serious question though, when was the last time a major leaked free agent signing, where the terms and years - something the Phillies almost never reveal! - were already out there, didn't actually happen? For any team? Or even the last failed physical on a minor free agent signing?

Now, we can remember a few where the signings did happen and probably shouldn't have (or the medicals weren't thorough).

Andy could be right as well. Maybe they are looking for a bullpen or bench piece in exchange for a catcher. They might also be willing to move on from Sanchez if they don't think he's a useful depth starter (and have Painter as well as Falter, plus the other kids, ahead of him). One imagines Miller could work his way onto the 40 too (thereby beating out Sanchez as a third lefty reliever).

Miguel Alfredo Gonzalez (with whom they subsequently renegotiated the deal)?

[zambonir]

Good one! But that was more like an amateur signing (albeit an international pro) than a deal with a proven veteran major leaguer.

The way Wikipedia remembers it:

On July 26, 2013, stories in the press reported that González agreed to a six-year contract with the Philadelphia Phillies, worth $60 million.[7] However, the Phillies never confirmed the report and subsequent reports mentioned that the deal might not happen.[8] On August 30, 2013, the Phillies announced they had signed González to a three-year, $12 million contract with a vesting option for 2017.[9]

[andyb]

There probably have been a number of "failed the physical" signings that have not happened or got reworked significantly. Probably happens to potential draft picks more often than free agents who often circulate their MRIs in order to get signed.

[zambonir]

Yeah, major league vets are just much more of a known quantity (medically as well as baseball-wise). And most draft picks don't actually have their deals informally announced or leaked before the physical; we only hear about it all falling apart after.

[VoteForKalas]

The Eagles had the famous 2006 LeCharles Bentley deal that was signed and then the player reneged on it to sign with the Cleveland Browns.

He became a punch line in Philadelphia from that point forward and karma was harsh as he got injured before that season started, tried to come back for 2 years and finally had to retire.

So, the issue was not a failed physical, but the deal did fall through after it was signed.

[phillychuck]

Frank Gore on almost signing with the Eagles; The role Nick Foles played in his...

[zambonir]

Matt Boyd, first reported December 1, announced December 14. Cody Bellinger, reported December 6, announced December 14.

That said, while I still don't think there's anything unusual going on, curious to see what happens. I would imagine the issue is still that Walker hasn't come to Philadelphia, and once he does there will be both a physical and a press conference.

[Philsmania]

Per an article on the Phillies website posted this past Sunday...

"Here are a few other Phillies thoughts with left-hander Matt Strahm (two years, $15 million) introduced Friday and right-hander Taijuan Walker (four years, $72 million) likely to be introduced next week...."

How Phils' big moves impact 2023 and beyond

[zambonir]

Maybe they just wanted to get a better advance-purchase airfare after spending all that money.