Phillies 2021 Spring Training Discussion

zambonir 2021-02-25 04:49:43 UTC #81

As things currently stand they very much need VV. There is no guarantee that both Moore and Anderson will pan out, and Howard either seems ticketed for AAA or won't be available to pitch by August (though those things also seem in opposition to each other, and by August they could also have acquired a new pitcher).

But if you actually signed Odorizzi he's quite possibly your #3 starter, and certainly your #4, even if his 2020 was a mess (which is also why he ought to be available more cheaply at this point). At that point they'd not only need to trim a little payroll but couldn't carry all those rotation arms - If the lefty Moore is your #5 and Howard is in AAA one of Anderson or Velasquez would become a swingman/long reliever/6th starter, but you don't need a $4 million 8th starter.

The other idea, of course is that VV might become a higher leverage reliever, but we've never been able to find out, and if Watson and Kintzler both look good in camp I'd sooner bet that money on them.

flyers19rw 2021-02-25 07:34:14 UTC #82

VV got off to a decent start in his career in his first year in Houston. Since then he’s been in a spiral of inconsistency; never being able to put his talent together. His first time through the order can be dominating but then the wheels fall off. Throws too many pitches to last more than five or so innings. He has a propensity to either never get into rhythm in a game or tire out from throwing too many pitches earlier in the game. When he’s on, his performance is impressive and makes the club want to mine that talent. However, that’s too infrequent. His short starts tax the BP. He has never been able to transition to the BP himself. Doesn’t do well with runners on base. He’s been through three PCs in Philly and none have them has been able to help him get his career in order. There comes a time when an organization has to admit that they can’t fix a player and move on. Maybe he succeeds elsewhere but it hasn’t happened here. Four million dollars is a big price for a lottery ticket who best compares, according to baseball reference, to Jeff Juden.

phillychuck 2021-02-25 12:27:21 UTC #83

VV's perfect role is a tandem starter. 4 or 5 innings every 5 days. Pair him with someone very different in style.

allentown 2021-02-25 15:50:54 UTC #84

An obviously very good approach and another focus upon why the Phillies'-style of analytics-driven coaching has created a team which has consistently underperformed their level of talent. Their players are mostly flawed, but the majority of baseball players have big flaws. It has always seemed that the Phillies analytics are aimed at identifying 'what works' as in 'what is the optimum way for pitchers and hitters to pitch, hit, ad position themselves in the field' rather than looking at each Phillies player as an individual and determining what approach will allow that player to thrive and make the best of his pluses, while trying to paper over impact of weaknesses (while improving what is improveable). All too often this results in trying to change a players natural style and moving them away from their strengths. They joined the high fastball bad and were totally all in. They don't believe in tandem starts. Even when they try to be 'modern' by pursuing analytics and copying some of what leading organizations are doing, they are a very rigid organization. There coaches became not much more than translators of what the analytics guys were saying. it's a very immature approach to analytics. Haseley and Moniak were not drafted to hit HRs. Neither was Kingery, but the Phillies decide what they want and expect the player to adapt to deliver that. It really is just a modern version of Michael Bourn having a .400 OBP but being sharply criticized by Dancy for not adopting an approach which delivered more RBIs. Ironic that with all of the Phillies unsuccessful recent efforts to grow a CF, they were never happy with the plus guy from the farm. At least made good use of him as a trade chip.

andyb 2021-02-25 17:31:43 UTC #85

Ivan Nova to start Sunday. For all the talk about getting Odirizzi and the 4-person competition for the 4th and 5th rotation spots, I have a feeling Nova is going to start some this year. Solid AAAA signing if he is willing to pitch at LHV and his contract allows that.

zambonir 2021-02-25 18:24:57 UTC #86

Well, let's hope Nova makes a few starts because the Phillies' need 8 or 9 pitchers due to postponements and minor injuries, which is almost a given, not because the two guaranteed contract guys ahead of him stink. But he's no less of a bounce-back candidate than those two.

andyb 2021-02-25 18:46:36 UTC #87

I am hoping our 8th and 9th starters will be Adonis Medina and Damon Jones. Just not expecting that unfortunately.

zambonir 2021-02-25 19:26:34 UTC #88

Yeah, agreed, but I think, especially after last year, that there's probably some value in keeping them on turn, at least for the first half of the year. Seems like every spot starter we've had for the past three seasons has failed to turn into anything, even in the bullpen. Suarez the only fringe contributor.

The real question is still Howard. Will he crack the rotation and make short starts? Be in the bullpen as a de facto tandem starter? Go to AAA and only make four-inning stars so as to manage his innings for later?

zambonir 2021-02-26 05:02:37 UTC #89

At the end of this story: the Phillies now play at BayCare Ballpark in Clearwater.

Taudawg 2021-02-26 20:53:14 UTC #90

Zo with Sunday's pitchers -

https://twitter.com/ToddZolecki/status/1365392707577913351

Nova
Hale
Mitchell
De Los Santos
Hammer
Carr

andyb 2021-02-26 21:02:52 UTC #91

It seems like forever since Hammer was a fast rising then failed prospect. In normal times he would have had a full year at AAA last year to figure things out.

I am a little curious to see Tyler Carr, the last pitcher. He is a low round pick (31st) that has done nothing but pitch well in 2 seasons. Not great stuff. Low 90s but sidearm angle. Think of him as a potential Neshek type should right-handed relievers with mediocre velocity need a lot of things to go right to be good major league relievers. De Los Santos needs to be converted the bullpen now. See if he can sit 95-96 for one inning and be effective.

One other thing - these early games will probably give us our best chance to see the handful of prospects in camp. Think Stott and Rojas.

allentown 2021-02-26 22:36:09 UTC #92

I could be wrong, but I think he was injured last year. He did well in Reading in 2019, not so well higher up the org. I wouldn't call him a failed prospect at any point.

zambonir 2021-02-26 23:41:24 UTC #93

To me Hammer was never a prospect, more of surprise who crashed (and arguably wasn't ready). But when you get booted off the 40, you've definitely failed. It was one thing to hit the wall in MLB, but he should have been able to get guys out in Allentown.

I believe he still had a major league invite last year and got added to the 60-man pool a couple of weeks in, so yeah, in a normal season he might have figured it out in AAA and turned up in the major leagues again. Still could.

andyb 2021-02-27 14:23:22 UTC #94

Your standard Spring optimistic bullpen article. Hope they are right this year:

One small nugget - Alvarado spent a lot of time in their complex after the trade and did a session where he was hitting 98. His deal was a bit under the radar but could end up being one of the most important ones after Bradley.

Taudawg 2021-02-27 21:59:26 UTC #95

Matt Breen with tomorrow's lineup. Love those early spring training lineups!
https://twitter.com/matt_breen/status/1365729277279404032

Sunday's Phillies lineup for their Grapefruit League opener in Lakeland, Fla. against the Tigers:
Adam Haseley
Mickey Moniak
Travis Jankowski
Darick Hall
Scott Kingery
C.J. Chatham
Alec Bohm
Jeff Mathis
Ivan Nova

Taudawg 2021-02-28 00:55:43 UTC #96

Salisbury's update below. Sounds as though Joe G is leaning toward 13 pitchers, 13 position players. Like Jim does in the story, I suspect many of the older guys get jobs and those with minor league options will start the year in AAA.

allentown 2021-02-28 01:13:54 UTC #97

That's tough on the kids, but that's also how you make sure that you have quality replacement players when the inevitable injuries and Covid quarantined players happen. The kids have options and are active and ready in Allentown. Most of the older players can demand their release if they aren't on the MLB players. If a team isn't trying/thinking they have a good chance at making post-season, playing the kids builds the future. In order to contend over a long season, some of the kids need to start the year in Allentown, to serve as injury replacements. the older injury replacements are often 2nd-tier guys without enough leverage to get a promote or release date agreement.

zambonir 2021-02-28 02:11:35 UTC #98

"The kids" aren't necessarily Phillies' minor leaguers. Alvarado and Coonrod both have options. And Salisbury still lists Brogdon as one of the top four guys on the MLB roster (along with Alvarado). Romero probably does lose his spot to Watson (assuming Watson pitches well), and someone else is going to get forced out by the extra starting pitcher (which may also be Howard). And Hale remains on shaky ground of course.

LoneStarPhan 2021-02-28 18:32:37 UTC #99

Ivan Nova starts first game of the spring and only last 1/3 of an inning. Home run, single, single, walk, walk, K. 27 pitches, 2 runs on 3 hits but leaves with bases loaded so on the hook for more runs.

Hennigan comes on to issue a 4 pitch walk to force in another run.
Walks next batter on full count forcing in another run charged to Nova.
Next batter singles, forcing in another run. Hence Nova charged with 5 runs in his third of an inning. SSS astronomical ERA.

Tigers continue to bat in the first, bases loaded, one out and 5 runs already in.

ST GDT 2/28/21: Phillies (Nova) @ Detroit (Alexander)

zambonir 2021-02-28 20:58:40 UTC #100

Worth noting:

NBC Sports Philadelphia will stream its 12 Phillies spring training games on both the NBC Sports app and the MyTeams app, but a subscription to a cable service is required. Fans in the Philadelphia metro area can also get NBC Sports Philadelphia on fuboTV (which is offering a free seven-day preview), YouTube TV, Hulu Live TV, and AT&T TV (though you have to subscribe to their more expensive “choice” package).

MLB.TV is scheduled to stream 17 Phillies games and has eliminated its local blackout rule during spring training. There is a subscription fee, which you can pay monthly or in one annual lump sum.