Phillies 2016-2017 offseason Discussion

zambonir 2017-01-03 21:36:59 UTC #899

I guess that also stems from the fact that the Phillies changed the terms of the trade after reading his medical reports.

Mod's note:

Moved the "trade VV" discussion from the Prospects thread.

You can fairly easily respond to a post in one thread, with your response in a different thread. Start in the thread where you want your response to live; click the reply button there, to get the composing windows open. Then navigate to the thread with the (presumably) off-topic thing you want to quote, select it, click the "quote" button that appears, and write your reply. Voila!

So the next time a poster posts something off-topic in a limited-topic thread - as for example, a question about "Who do you prefer? Velasquez or Eickhoff?" in the 2017 prospects lists thread - you can reply to that question in the general off-season discussion thread, or in a new thread that's all about trading Vince Velasquez (or Jerad Eickhoff, if that's your preference!).

Slinging_Southpaw 2017-01-04 00:44:02 UTC #900

With an outfield at Lehigh Valley of Cozens, Quinn and Williams, wondering if Goeddel would be a good move back to his original position "3B." He's already a good outfielder and could certainly get some playing time there also, but 3B is an area of need down on the farm.

allentown 2017-01-04 01:28:02 UTC #901

That's a reasonable approach. If Goeddel makes the Phillies within the next couple of seasons, I think it likely to be in a utility role. We have a lot of CFs and I'm not at all convinced that Goeddel has a starting corner OF bat.

julio 2017-01-04 14:35:30 UTC #902

Reporter speculation about the Phils adding a hitter seems to be increasing. Don't know whether it indicates anything real, or if they just don't have anything else to write about and are feeding off one another, but:

andyb 2017-01-04 15:03:59 UTC #903

In general terms those 3 left-handed bats (Saunders, Moss, and Bruce) seem to be the ones that can be acquire with a combination of money, few real prospects and/or short term commitments. Saunders would require the longest commitment unless he were open to a high-salaried one season make-good type of deal.

I really don't think acquiring one of these players hurts any young players. Right now we have 2 outfield spots with questions. The only current answers to them are both right-handed (Kendrick, Altherr). Playing them plus a left-handed bat in the 2 spots (with the left-handed bat available potentially for some first base work) is not going to affect the development of Altherr. He'll get plenty of chances in that setup and if he plays well would win a full time job. I am completely fine also with starting Quinn in AAA where he has not played yet. Give the setup a couple of months to see what we have got.

One other point - Kendrick could easily slot onto the bench as the "versatile" guy. Rupp and Blanco are givens. Kendrick started games in LF, 2B, 3B, and 1B last year. Think of him as a right-handed Cody Asche who is a little better defensively and a better contact hitter. He is not the worst bench player if it came to that.

Austinfan 2017-01-04 15:29:55 UTC #904

I think it's pretty certain they'll add a LH OF and that Stassi has the inside track for the fifth player off the bench: Knapp, Blanco, ???, LH OF, Stassi.
So they'll probably add two OFs, one a LH OF who'll platoon and get 400 AB, the second an OF who'll be deep depth.
With Blanco and Kendrick, they don't need short-term IF depth, and if there's a serioius injury they'd probably call up Crawford or Valentin.

The rumors may well be designed to create a sense of urgency for agents, if there are few starting or even 4th OF slots available for a LH OF, better start making a deal before those slots close.

julio 2017-01-04 18:03:25 UTC #905

Article about the Phils' likely 2017 rotation:

donaldorc 2017-01-04 18:50:07 UTC #906

Very interesting article. Let's hope that Nola recovers from his injuries, his cFIP is amazing. I really like Eickhoff, ever since his first start for the Phillies. Even though he trails Nola and VV in this ranking, he was the only one to work the whole season. The surprise is how bad Hellickson and Buchholz are in this assessment. Our "veteran" pitchers to shore up the rotation!

zambonir 2017-01-04 19:00:40 UTC #907

The chatter about the specific players may or may not be accurate but it seems clear the Phillies do not consider Altherr their full-time starting RF, period. He will either share time with a veteran, or with Quinn.

I still don't see the Phillies moving Kendrick around the field, he was not happy about doing that in LA (and didn't hit well while doing it). Klentak obviously was connected to him from their time in Anaheim and while it's not like Kendrick can do anything about it I think the team has made a good-faith commitment to him that he'll play one position (even if it might still be 2B). If he struggled and is relegated to a bench/utility role, he won't have much deadline value either, they at least want to find out if he does as an everyday players.

Doesn't mean someone else (the theoretical new guy, or Altherr) won't play LF a couple of times a week of course. Or that Kendrick couldn't DH interleague games.

California_Dreamin 2017-01-04 19:12:38 UTC #908

Something to look for this week is the Phils seeming sudden interest in Bruce. I believe this has occurred for several reasons. 1. Phils have always liked him and even talked about him last spring.. 2. Phils realize Bruce is the one lefty hitter on a 1 year deal [I believe both Moss and Saunders are still hoping for a 2 year deal]. 3. Mets have indicated they want to try and get something done with Bruce this week because they need salary relief in order to sign a reliever and 4. Mets have indicated they are prepared to pay part of Bruce's salary.

The reason I think something could happen soon is because Salisbury is talking about it and he always seems to know the general thoughts of the Phillie braintrust. The reason I think it could be Bruce is because his name is suddenly being bantered will all Phillie reporters, whereas before it was mostly a talk about the free agents [Bautista, Moss, Saunders, Davis.]

Talk does not a deal make but if its Jay Bruce, watch for something to happen soon. The Mets are very anxious to get the Bruce situation resolved, and have wanted to since they signed Cespedes. They are reportedly shocked that the interest so far has been so minimal.

Seems a perfect time for the Phils to strike...

BtownFan 2017-01-04 20:49:07 UTC #909

Of the folks named, I'd rather see Bruce in in red pinstripes for reasons of cost and potential. But I just can't see the Mets shipping him the 116.2 miles from Citifield to CBP. Hey, whatever happened to those Dozier rumors???

tom81 2017-01-04 21:06:20 UTC #910

I think another reason something could happen soon is the Dozier situation looks to be resolved soon too. I think there may be a domino like flurry of activity if he doesn't get moved to LA, possibly involving teams like the Tigers who have been pretty quite lately.

Austinfan 2017-01-04 21:31:10 UTC #911

Buchholtz is a total wild card, he hasn't lost velocity, the usual sign of an aging pitcher headed for the cliff, but his performance the last three years has been erratic, to put it kindly.
He either bounces back, and is a trade piece in July, or falters, in which case he'll probably be cut at some point whne they deem a young pitcher ready to take his spot.

Philsmania 2017-01-04 22:03:45 UTC #912

California_Dreamin:

Something to look for this week is the Phils seeming sudden interest in Bruce. I believe this has occurred for several reasons. 1. Phils have always liked him and even talked about him last spring.. 2. Phils realize Bruce is the one lefty hitter on a 1 year deal [I believe both Moss and Saunders are still hoping for a 2 year deal]. 3. Mets have indicated they want to try and get something done with Bruce this week because they need salary relief in order to sign a reliever and 4. Mets have indicated they are prepared to pay part of Bruce's salary.

The reason I think something could happen soon is because Salisbury is talking about it and he always seems to know the general thoughts of the Phillie braintrust. The reason I think it could be Bruce is because his name is suddenly being bantered will all Phillie reporters, whereas before it was mostly a talk about the free agents [Bautista, Moss, Saunders, Davis.]

Talk does not a deal make but if its Jay Bruce, watch for something to happen soon. The Mets are very anxious to get the Bruce situation resolved, and have wanted to since they signed Cespedes. They are reportedly shocked that the interest so far has been so minimal.

Seems a perfect time for the Phils to strike...

The Mets want bullpen help. Bruce & cash for Gomez & maybe a prospect who wouldn't kills us to part with (recognizing, of course that the more cash we get, the better the prospect)?

http://metsmerizedonline.com/2017/01/phillies-could-be-interested-in-jay-bruce.html/

Austinfan 2017-01-04 22:44:04 UTC #913

Don't think the Phillies care about money back, they're still south of a $100M payroll, they'd rather not part with a real prospect.

Carver 2016-12-28 17:08:10 UTC #914

I, for one, would hope to see them back in this conversation once again. They are a large market team that has decided to masquerade as a small revenue team once again, and that is an insult to the fan base.

The problem is when a team becomes top-heavy with aging former stars locked in at too many positions for too long and for too much. However the problem is not solved by avoiding them altogether...I want the team to go out and get top shelf talent. Of course we want them to make the smarter deals if possible. ; )

Adding an impact free agent last winter, and adding one via trade or FA this winter would have been smart. The payroll is eminently available, and the goal is to get better whenever and wherever you can. The rebuild would be a step or two further along by now, with oodles of available payroll remaining and plenty of room for prospects to push their way into the conversation along with it.

xogfog 2016-12-28 17:21:26 UTC #915

I think that is a jaded view of what they are actually trying to do. They are not keeping the payroll down to be cheap. The payroll is low because they are trying to build the base of the team with prospects, which results in a lower payroll because they are all on low contracts at this time. They need time to assess those prospects and once they know who the keepers are, they will spend for big time free agents. In the meantime they are signing free agents that hopefully they can flip at the deadline to acquire more assets.

It is a tough process for the fans because we won't see winning baseball for at least another season or two, but it is the blueprint that the Cubs used, and it worked well for them.

zambonir 2016-12-28 22:16:00 UTC #916

I think it's okay to be angry that the Phillies aren't spending and have to waste several years resetting the organization, but my anger about that isn't directed at anyone currently running the team (except perhaps Middleton).

LoneStarPhan 2016-12-29 00:46:56 UTC #917

It's a fine line between rebuilding and being cheap. I am totally behind the rebuild but I also think that adding a better outfielder last season would have been a good thing. It is true that free agents are often being paid for their past production (when they were underpaid) more than what they are expected to bring over the course of a long term deal. That is why it is not smart to sign too many expensive free agents. It is much better to have those early years of these players before they become free agents. That is the goal of the rebuild -- form a core of young players in their inexpensive but productive years. Then sign some to extensions to prolong their time with the club while they are still productive. Then fill needs with free agents or trades of prospects not projected to fit into your team.

zambonir 2016-12-29 01:30:39 UTC #918

Last year they really were tanking, no matter what anyone says. Should have had a Top 3 draft pick.

But the thing is, signing a "better" player doesn't always mean better performance. They went for 0-3 on Bourjos, Altherr and Williams forcing himself into the picture (and 0-5 if you put Asche and Ruf on that list) but bringing in Jay Bruce or Matt Kemp or some other FA with more upside than Bourjos might not have helped either. And the emphasis on defense was deliberate and mostly successful (when the pitchers were healthy).