(OT) Advice for retirement decision

[phillychuck]

Hi fellow posters. I'm hoping to tap the wisdom of some of our older posters here--I am at the age where I can opt to retire, but I'm really conflicted about the decision. Here's why:

Against Retirement factors:
1. I love my job day-to-day.
2. I work with great people who are my friends.
3. I feel I make a positive difference in the people's lives who I affect (I'm a teacher and I've taught several thousand students, many of whom contact me even decades after graduation)
4. I make decent money, and the longer I work the more secure my retirement will be.
5. My job gives me something to look forward to and something to engage with intellectually.
6. (minor) We have great lunches at work.
7. I don't like to travel.

In favor of retirement factors:
1. I commute 2 or more hours total in a day, and even though I carpool the commute time is pretty tedious.
2. I find myself physically worn out more often than not at the end of a day.
3. There are some pretty weird ideas being foisted on all of us about how to teach, what to teach, and how to interact with students. I don't want to get into a lot of detail about this and bore all of you, but the ideas make me question whether we are doing the best we can for our students anymore. Old-fogeyism on my part, possibly.
4. The people who I work for (more than one level above me) are inexperienced and make decisions that are perplexing and often make my job far more difficult and irritating.
5. Although there are a few things I'd look forward to doing in retirement, I tend to be easily distracted when I don't have short-term goals. I'm afraid I'd turn into a vegetable.
6. My job is pretty sedentary and I'd get more opportunity to exercise if I'm retired.
7. My financial situation is stable going forward.

I'd like your advice on any of this--which factors are most important? How should I make the decision? It's been hard asking for advice, since people are so different in terms of their emotional and intellectual needs...but, I figure more information is better than less information in any case.

Thanks for your replies!

[julio]

This is tough. I guess the best I can do is to pose a couple of questions:

1. You work with great people who are your friends. Are these people younger than you? If they're your contemporaries, are they retiring? E.g., are they disappearing from your workplace? (If they're younger, this is an irrelevant point.)

2. You say, "I love my job day-to-day." But you comment about "weird ideas being foisted on all of us," and "people I work for are inexperienced and make decisions that are perplexing and make my job more difficult and irritating." So - do you love your job day-to-day, or do you love what it once was, but perhaps isn't any more?

3. Your point about intellectual engagement is spot-on. When you retire (now or later), you'll need to find things to keep you intellectually active. Doesn't have to be full-time, but you'll need something, or you'll be bored. (I provide some tech support for a local art gallery, serve as Treasurer of a local organization, sing in the choir, etc. - all of which provide some interpersonal contact/stimulation, structure my calendar, etc. - and I've been working part-time, typically less than 10 hrs/wk, for my former agency.) To me, this is probably the most important thing - need to keep the wheels turning, mentally (and to some extent, physically). Becoming a couch potato is the thing that must be avoided, because it's a killer (intellectually and literally).

Bottom line for me - if you are truly still loving your day-to-day job, as it is now - and if it's not getting in the way of other things you would like to do / want to do "before it's too late," then there's no reason to retire. On the other hand, if it's becoming a drag (the commute time, the weird ideas, the bad decisions) - and if there are things you want to do instead, then it's time.

Side comment, concerning the weird ideas: My wife is a former art teacher (with a masters in social psychology); we talk about the fact that the educational establishment seems to jump on one "philosophy" after another - faddism, frankly. Every few years, somebody publishes an influential paper, and pedagogy is turned upside down to follow this new idea. It's not like hard science, where new understanding builds on what we already knew; it's "do it this way instead," until the next new idea comes along. Yes, paradigm shifts occur in the hard sciences - but most change is incremental, building on the past. I don't have that impression with regard to educational theory - it seems much more incoherent (from a lay outside perspective, of course). Or is this a wrong impression?

[VoteForKalas]

Congratulations, PC.

I'm not close to retirement, but certainly have seen parents, other relatives and friends go through the process.

I think it comes down to three factors: quality of life, health and financial security.

They are related obviously, but my experience watching people do this is they do not think it fully through and thus regret the decision one way or the other shortly thereafter.

If your quality of life, health and financial situation are enhanced by continuing to work, do it for as long as you can. Some of the people I've seen retire regretted it in the end since they were too young, lost touch with friends, could not get as good health care coverage etc.

If, however, your quality of life and health would be improved and your financial situation is solid, there are few things better than spending your days doing exactly what makes you happy, being with family more, enjoying hobbies etc.

I wish you all the best.

[xogfog]

I look at it like this. If you love what do, it isn't a job, so if you are happy where you work, then don't retire yet. Unless you have specific goals you want to accomplish after you retire then I wouldn't, at least for a while, and get your retirement goals in focus. Without goals we wither. Ultimately, do what brings you enjoyment the most.

On a personal note, thank you for being a teacher!

[bkeich]

I am a few years behind you, but I will throw my two cents in on my "plan":

We have different careers, but I think this point is valid. My plan is to go to part time / contract work at or around 65 and continue to do that as long as I am able. As long as one can do some work I think it helps keep your mind sharp and honestly to give you things to do. I plan to work in my career, but might consider something less stressful or "fun".

My Dad found a great part time job-- He drove for Enterprise driving the cars to the dealers when they are ready to be sold. Something like that is always a good idea in my opinion. Or something like Uber.

I think the key is to find something that you can take "vacation" at your leisure anytime you want. You have earned the right to enjoy life on your own terms....

For a teacher, maybe you should look at something like part time tutoring or teaching at the community college or something like that. Something that is not a full time 40 hour job...

My old boss, a Vice President at a Fortune 50/Dow Jones listed company retired and.... got a job at Home Depot helping customers with their needs. He loved it. He didnt need 1 cent of the pay, but he needed the activity.

Just my thought

[bkox]

For a teacher, maybe you should look at something like part time tutoring or teaching at the community college or something like that. Something that is not a full time 40 hour job...

There are lots of opportunities doing tutoring online. I know people who are making $15-30 an hour teaching English to students in foreign countries and you dont even have to know their language.

[phillychuck]

Side comment, concerning the weird ideas: My wife is a former art teacher (with a masters in social psychology); we talk about the fact that the educational establishment seems to jump on one "philosophy" after another - faddism, frankly. Every few years, somebody publishes an influential paper, and pedagogy is turned upside down to follow this new idea. It's not like hard science, where new understanding builds on what we already knew; it's "do it this way instead," until the next new idea comes along. Yes, paradigm shifts occur in the hard sciences - but most change is incremental, building on the past. I don't have that impression with regard to educational theory - it seems much more incoherent (from a lay outside perspective, of course). Or is this a wrong impression?

You and your wife are spot-on with this, and it's really pretty stupid of the administrators not to see how these fads come and go and adjust their management to acknowledge this. Not only are new paradigms rolled out, they are sold as the ONLY way to do things. Student-centered learning, student-directed learning, experiential education, projects instead of tests, no final exams, block periods (90 minutes instead of ~50 minutes), lots of student down-time during the day, on-line learning (flipped classrooms), high-tech teaching methods (virtual reality, etc)`, on and on. And all of them 100%, "don't do what you used to do."

I'm lucky in that we are basically independent within our classrooms and I integrate these techniques rather than relying solely on them. As a physics teacher, I also struggle with the year-to-year fluctuation in the co-curricular requirements...it's something new every year, and I'm expected to be able to teach whatever it is with little to no training. Sometimes it's stuff that I disagree with from a scientific perspective or just don't think adds anything to a student's experience or knowledge-base. Sometimes it's something I basically agree with but it's applied without any balance or insight. Or maybe I'm just a whiner, I don't know...

[julio]

Yeah, you're definitely the whiner.... NOT. I'm the cranky one here...

I integrate these techniques rather than relying solely on them.

Novel concept. Take the new technique and integrate it with established approaches. Build rather than replace.

You'd think you had training in science or something...

[Florida_Sunshine]

phillychuck,

A lot of good advice here from other posters. The only thing I would ask is that it appears you are unable to come up with replacement activities, goals and pursuits. Until you have a number of things that you really have a burning desire to do, stay where you are.

I suspect you will have that burning desire soon.

[julio]

Freudian?

[Florida_Sunshine]

Oh man, not a good slip!

[julio]

Oh man, not a good slip!

Oh, I don't know... We need all the humor we can muster, in these cold, dark winter days!

[Florida_Sunshine]

You certainly picked up on it quickly, lol.

[RTaylor]

I have 2 1/2 years left at my university (I'm in year 30). I'm trying to plan for my retirement as I did for my career. The bonus is I now have more freedom to choose where to live and how to spend my time. I've loved many aspects of teaching, too, but I'm very excited about the prospect of moving across the country, doing some volunteer work, getting involved in the arts. I agree with the advice that you should have a sense of what you're retiring to. If and when work becomes insufferable, then you'll be motivated to start planning in earnest.

[flyers19rw]

If you don't need the money, go when you can. Workplaces are fluid situations. One doesn't know when the next change will come which will make the job uncomfortable.
I left when I wanted to go and on my own terms. There were many people who stayed on too long and then were burned out leaving under less than desirable conditions.
Retirement is great. When you are young, you are under the control of your family. Then you move to a time period when your job controls a lot of your life. When you retire, and are financially secure, you are finally on your own to do what you want when you want. Don't worry about what you will do with your time, it will fill up for you. (Just be judicious and don't allow others to fill it up for you unless you want to do that.) Freedom, love it.

[Lucky_Beagle]

I used to say I would retire the first minute I thought I was eligible...I have seen too many from my school district either die while in the job or within a year or two after retiring and never get to spend real time "retired". As I get closer (4.5 years if all goes well) I understand why people sometimes strive to work for another couple of years. I think wanting to relocate from an area would play a major part in a final decision for many.

[BostonRoss]

I like that I am not even in the top few oldest people on this board, even though I'll turn 60 in a couple of weeks!

My wife is a retired teacher who still volunteers in a public school classroom. Her best friend is still a teacher, and my sister is as well. What you say about today's administrators sounds very familiar to me. My wife is very happy not to have to deal with it.

I am probably close to being able to retire from a financial standpoint, but I have no short term plans to do so. Although I'm in a different field and have a short commute, I share many of your feelings about my job. I feel like I'm doing good, and I very much enjoy my co-workers. The work is interesting and engages me intellectually.

When I retire, I don't expect to travel that much either, but I can think of some other things I'd like to do if I had more time. Right now the appeal of those other things do not outweigh my enjoyment of my work and workplace.

One thing you seem to have going for you is that you didn't mention wanting to move. I suspect that you are happy where you live, given the commute that you put up with. A benefit of retirement is being more able to live where you want, but you don't seem to have that issue.

You also didn't mention the one thing I hear people my age usually bring up when they discuss retirement--health insurance. Maybe that won't be an issue for you, but depending on your age and circumstances, that could be a financial factor. I know it's something my sister, who is younger than I but can retire within a year or two, is considering. But you didn't mention it as an issue; so maybe that;s not a big consideration.

Given what I am hearing from you, I think you are not quite at the point of retirement. You may well feel worse physically within a few years, though, or maybe the administrative headaches will become less bearable. So while it seems to make sense for you to hang on for now, you might want to start making plans for how you will spend your time when you do retire (including time for exercise). I am sure that someone with your skills and experience can do some productive and rewarding things.

Best of luck!

[miker]

In my field, at my employer, retirement was mandatory at age 59....I loved my job and my coworkers and was well-regarded in my field.The job was also rewarding both intellectually and financially..so..what to do? Well I did not have to decide whether or not to retire as that decision was already made for me. What I did do was take a similar job at another employer that did not have an age limit in the bargaining unit contract. I was able to collect a generous pension (and lifetime medical) from my first employer and collect a nice salary from the second....the end result was that I was able to remain in my field and ended up making substantially more money than I had been...more than I need really ...but, as I said I loved my work and the thought of not doing it was depressing. So how does that relate to your situation:
-if you enjoy your work keep doing it or do it at another employer. This is especially true if the new employer is closer and less of a commute.
-if you leave the job stay close to the co-workers that you worked with. Just because you retire does not mean you cannot remain friends. In my case I was able to that and gain a whole new set of friends/coworkers.
-don't be the grumpy old guy. This holds true whether you stay where you are or go to a new place. All of my coworkers now are younger, some by decades, but we still get along well and often socialize after work.
The bottom line: working keeps you young if you like your work. If you don't I imagine it could have the opposite effect. It also gets you up and moving in the morning and hopefully gives you a sense of purpose and satisfaction at the end of the day. If those things apply to you then keep on going....

[schooldoc]

pc--I didn't know you were a teacher. This thread is very interesting and helpful to me, since I'm also in education (school psychologist--hence my username). I'm turning 50 this year, so I have a few years to go yet before retirement is an option. In NJ if you begin in the field when I did, you are eligible at 25 years of service and 55 years of age. But at 20/50 in June 2019, I'm clearly on the back nine if you will. So I am thinking more and more about this stuff.

I wonder, what do you do over the summer? I ask because in a sense, I think about that as "retirement practice." I am able to work part-time in my district over the summer, but the hours are very flexible and long weekends are guaranteed since the buildings are only open Mon-Thurs in July & August.

When I'm doing it right over the summer, I work enough to keep busy and pay the bills while enjoying the added leisure time. When I'm not doing it right, I stay up too late at night, get up too late in the morning, mostly hang around home and don't accomplish much for a few days in a row. I'll sometimes get in a bit of a rut if I don't have the structure in place that regular work forces upon me. At least right now I know that come September, I'll have my working routine back and I'll be back to what I know best. For myself, I know I'll really need to think about that before I take the retirement plunge.

So, perhaps you can think about your summers as a barometer of what your retirement might look like. Does more of that interest you, excite you, or scare you a little?

[jimbomill]

Against Retirement factors:
1. I love my job day-to-day.
2. I work with great people who are my friends.
3. I feel I make a positive difference in the people's lives who I affect (I'm a teacher and I've taught several thousand students, many of whom contact me even decades after graduation)
4. I make decent money, and the longer I work the more secure my retirement will be.
5. My job gives me something to look forward to and something to engage with intellectually.
6. (minor) We have great lunches at work.
7. I don't like to travel.

In favor of retirement factors:
1. I commute 2 or more hours total in a day, and even though I carpool the commute time is pretty tedious.
2. I find myself physically worn out more often than not at the end of a day.
3. There are some pretty weird ideas being foisted on all of us about how to teach, what to teach, and how to interact with students. I don't want to get into a lot of detail about this and bore all of you, but the ideas make me question whether we are doing the best we can for our students anymore. Old-fogeyism on my part, possibly.
4. The people who I work for (more than one level above me) are inexperienced and make decisions that are perplexing and often make my job far more difficult and irritating.
5. Although there are a few things I'd look forward to doing in retirement, I tend to be easily distracted when I don't have short-term goals. I'm afraid I'd turn into a vegetable.
6. My job is pretty sedentary and I'd get more opportunity to exercise if I'm retired.
7. My financial situation is stable going forward

After reading your "Against" list, I thought, you should stay at a job you love, working with great people who are friends. The rest of your "Against" list adds fuel to that fire.

Then I read your "In favor" list.
I vote retire.

Your first two entries are strong in this regard. Numbers 3 and 4 do not simply "push me over the edge" in this opinion, they catapult me!
Nobody knows how much time they have less, if you are in a position to retire, start that next phase.
If you need something, you can consult/tutor.