Odubel Herrera Arrested in AC; Charged with Domestic Violence

[Lawman]

I doubt he will be convicted. Charges dropped because she won't testify or slap on the wrist plea deal. Basically what has happened in most of the MLB domestic violence cases.

I tend to agree that will be the end result, especially as this appears to be a first offense.

[Philsmania]

This is article is a great rundown of the situation, from contractual to legal to immigration ramifications.

What's next for Herrera after domestic violence arrest?

To summarize:
*Who knows how long his suspension might be;
*It's unlikely he faces prison time;
*The Phillies face an uphill road if it is their intention to try to void his contract though they can try to buy him out;
*If the girlfriend does not cooperate, the criminal case likely collapses and there is nothing MLB can do to compel her (or the hotel's) cooperation;
*Manfred is a lawyer himself so he is likely to want Herrera to get his due process;
*The charge is not of the nature that is likely to lead to removal proceedings in immigration court but if he leaves the US and tries to come back in while the case is pending, he might have problems getting back in.

[EDmuch]

Whether he can be deported would depend upon how far ICE would want to stretch the definition of "Crime of violence". But without question a conviction would render him inadmissible if he left the US and tried to return.

[phillychuck]

No games in Toronto for him, then...

[zambonir]

Herrera's administrative leave extended by MLB

[zambonir]

Prosecutors decline to charge Dodgers' Urias

Potentially germane. Sounds like Odubel's incident was worse (according to the story Urias's victim had no injuries).

_He will not be prosecuted as long as he participates in a 52-week domestic counseling program and commits no acts of violence for the next year, the city attorney said.

Urias could still face disciplinary action from Major League Baseball, which was investigating the incident.

[Taudawg]

I'm not sure if this question was asked in another thread, does Odubel have minor league options left? He doesn't have 5 years service time, I think, but I don't know how his contract plays into options. If he does return he is going to get crushed by the fans. Some additional time at AAA might help if the fan base knows he is receiving treatment.

He could be exposed to waivers and maybe someone picks him...that's a big "if." Personally I'd like to see him and her get help while also see the Phillies get his contract off books.

[andyb]

He probably has all of his options remaining. Since he was a rule 5 pick he had not used any of them before he got to the Phillies. And we have not sent him down since then other than injury rehab.

We'd still need to pay him of course. Maybe they could argue that he violated some off-field terms of the contract if they want to release him.

[julio]

We'd still need to pay him of course. Maybe they could argue that he violated some off-field terms of the contract if they want to release him.

Herrera's options are intact. He could be optioned - but as noted, he's on a guaranteed contract, which means (in all probability) there's no "split contract" with a discounted salary if in the minors.

I've seen things suggesting it's not likely the Phils will be able to find a way to void the contract. If they release him, they're likely going to pay him anyway. It's not all that much money to just treat as a sunk cost - up to $10 million a year - for instance, they're still paying Howie Kendrick $5 million this season.

[zambonir]

My impression was that any "morals clause," if there is one, is superseded by the MLB/MLBPA domestic violence policy. If he does what the league and the law requires of him, he's not in violation of anything.

It's unfortunate we're only talking about this because he's an unproductive, and arguably unpopular, player. From a baseball perspective sending him down would make sense. It will likely be after the trade deadline and he won't be in great game shape (even after rehab). But if you want him gone from the organization because of the incident, you can't just pass that on to Allentown. If you're going to stand by him and say he needs counseling and that he might still have a future in the organization, different story. But if that's the case there may still be a bench job for him in Philadelphia.

The Phillies actually got something for Howie Kendrick! Ultimately turned him into Justin Bour too.

[fish]

It's not all that much money to just treat as a sunk cost - up to $10 million a year - for instance, they're still paying Howie Kendrick $5 million this season.

Say what?

[julio]

Per Spotrac, it's deferred compensation.

[LoneStarPhan]

Taking down any banners/posters with Herrera was a reasonable thing to do while all this plays out. For now, the Phillies should let the legal system and MLB investigation play out. I don't think that dumping him is the only option, but we will see.

As for the general popularity Herrera had prior to this incident, he was well liked by some but not by perhaps a larger part of the fan base. He can look really bad or look like he wasn't trying, but for his first several years with the team, his numbers were very good. No doubt, he was not doing great so far this season, but that is another issue.

[julio]

As for the general popularity Herrera had prior to this incident, he was well liked by some but not by perhaps a larger part of the fan base. He can look really bad or look like he wasn't trying, but for his first several years with the team, his numbers were very good. No doubt, he was not doing great so far this season, but that is another issue.

It's the Philadelphia fan base.

The following is my personal (probably somewhat biased/tainted) opinion, but:

The archetypical baseball player who will be loved by Phillies fans is: 1) white (anglo); 2) smallish; 3) "gritty" - gets dirty, plays visibly "hard" or aggressively; 4) emotional - his frustrations are evident, he doesn't "hold it in; 4) of middling actual talent, but works to overcome that.

Now, the phans have adopted lots of guys who don't have all of these characteristics - typically because their strengths in some areas offset the things the don't have. But if you're not white, or you don't appear to be "grinding" (regardless of actual performance), or you never seem to get upset, you have a strike against you. If you're obviously talented, but you're not contending for MVP, you have a strike against you. If you have multiple strikes, you're in deep trouble.

If you're latino, and the game comes easily, so it doesn't appear you're trying hard, and you don't run into walls, you're in trouble... even if you're one of the best players ever to grace the uniform. If you're white, but introverted or studious, and don't show emotion, you'd better be REALLY good, or they're not going to warm up to you... and even if you're HOF caliber, it could take a decade for the phans to see what's in front of their faces.

[Lawman]

Odubel is due in court today.

[bkox]

Atlantic City Police (AtlanticCityPD)

[Philsmania]

As for the general popularity Herrera had prior to this incident, he was well liked by some but not by perhaps a larger part of the fan base. He can look really bad or look like he wasn't trying, but for his first several years with the team, his numbers were very good. No doubt, he was not doing great so far this season, but that is another issue.

It's the Philadelphia fan base.

The following is my personal (probably somewhat biased/tainted) opinion, but:

The archetypical baseball player who will be loved by Phillies fans is: 1) white (anglo); 2) smallish; 3) "gritty" - gets dirty, plays visibly "hard" or aggressively; 4) emotional - his frustrations are evident, he doesn't "hold it in; 4) of middling actual talent, but works to overcome that.

Now, the phans have adopted lots of guys who don't have all of these characteristics - typically because their strengths in some areas offset the things the don't have. But if you're not white, or you don't appear to be "grinding" (regardless of actual performance), or you never seem to get upset, you have a strike against you. If you're obviously talented, but you're not contending for MVP, you have a strike against you. If you have multiple strikes, you're in deep trouble.

If you're latino, and the game comes easily, so it doesn't appear you're trying hard, and you don't run into walls, you're in trouble... even if you're one of the best players ever to grace the uniform. If you're white, but introverted or studious, and don't show emotion, you'd better be REALLY good, or they're not going to warm up to you... and even if you're HOF caliber, it could take a decade for the phans to see what's in front of their faces.

Now, WIP and social media are trying to whip up a firestorm about Segura over alleged lack of hustle. I definitely see a trend where Latino players are being held to an impossible to meet sky-high standard in this town.

[miker]

So you are saying he hustled? Or are you saying he just should not be held accountable?

[andyb]

More that when this happened to Hoskins a week or two ago a much smaller deal was made on talk radio about it.

[allentown]

I think he's saying it's racism, and it is. No player hustles all the time. There also is an injury downside to too much hustle. Aaron Rowand's hustle was great until he ran into the wall and missed significant time. As I recall, the primary 'crime' Segura was accused of turned out to be not lack of hustle, but being in an awkward, almost fallen position after his swing. One of the intentional features of talk sports radio is racism/sexism -- it's vent therapy for disgruntled white males.

If you are collecting votes, put me down for he should not be held accountable for that. Was does 'held accountable' really even mean? Who are you going to play instead of him? Do you think public criticism and booing will improve his play?