News of Phormer Phillies, 2021

[zambonir]

I'm sure every team has a couple of guys like that, and we only remember the most glaring examples (like Charlie Morton rather than Drew Smyly, or Pivetta rather than Ben Lively.

It's just galling that the relievers they got for Pivetta were so trash, and that the Red Sox theoretically had more time and patience for Pivetta because they weren't as close to contending as the Phillies were supposed to be.

Could have signed Robertson this year though!

[andyb]

It does reinforce the notion that teams need to give prospects with good arms extra chances. Pivetta is still not great, but he is a useful arm that found a role at the back of the rotation and learned to minimize his errors some. He is still not that different from Eflin and even Velasquez as in deserving extra chances.

I care much less about Smyly and Robertson. Robertson got to pick his organization after doing his rehab and a rational person probably would not have picked the Phillies. And Smyly was never that great. Once he reached his free agent years the question was always about paying for market value there and his injury history made that a bad bet.

I don't know if it is the manager or development or the impatience working in a tough market, but the Phillies seem to get less out of their good minor league arms when healthy than other organizations. That is the frustration with Pivetta. Velasquez too, though VV this year had lost some of his stuff.

[allentown]

Watching Pivetta and Robertson deepens my belief that the Phillies are a cursed franchise.

It speaks loudly to our poor coaching.

[zambonir]

Poor coaching is the symptom rather than the cause, but you could say that about everything. Five pitching coaches in five years and they managed to spectacularly botch both the new-school hire and the old-school correction before this season. I don't know that Kranitz is really anything special (nor better than McLure was even - they both played a part in helping Nola and even Morton) but just having stability and a consistent approach is probably worth a lot, and the Phillies have had neither.

If we're inclined to give out credit or blame Cotham does get some points for Suarez, but they had to botch/give up on Howard (and fail to extract value from the other three #5 starters) to even get there.

Nobody misses Smyly, that was my point. We only remember the times you get burned. But obviously Dombrowski didn't do well with his own reclamation attempts this year. Would Matt Moore have had success in Boston that he didn't have here? It is certainly reasonable to assume their front office and coaching staff is better than ours - under the leadership of another Tampa guy, and the one we actually could have hired a few years ago too.

[Philsmania]

Did Pivetta really have a career rebirth in Boston? If you ask me, he improved from bad to charitably mediocre.

[zambonir]

I mean, he's still a depth starter. But he did what he did last night (and in Game 1) and he probablywould have started Game 4 if they hadn't used him last night. Slightly higher BBRef WAR than Nola and Eflin (obviously curtailed by his injury) and better ERA than Nola and Gibson (on the Phillies).

Not saying we should have kept him and it was a fair trade on paper at the time (ruined more by the quality of the relievers than Pivetta getting better). But that won't make it any more fun to watch if he thrives. Not to mention he only made $600,000 while we paid Vince, Anderson and Moore a combined $12 million +.

[andyb]

Not to mention he only made $600,000 while we paid Vince, Anderson and Moore a combined $12 million +.

Which is the core point here. Finding a way to keep and improve underperforming arms while they don't cost much money is important. We succeeded with Suarez and even Eflin. We failed with Pivetta and Velasquez (we kept him but failed to make him better).

It is the point of the Quinn comment about keeping him for $700K in the hot stove thread. I am guessing people will react negatively to my comment where essentially what I am asking is whether the team should keep a Quinn or a Jankowski and which player has more upside.

[BostonRoss]

Former MLB pitcher on Chase Utley: ‘If I could hit him every time, I would'

[julio]

It is the point of the Quinn comment about keeping him for $700K in the hot stove thread. I am guessing people will react negatively to my comment where essentially what I am asking is whether the team should keep a Quinn or a Jankowski and which player has more upside.

Quinn vs. Jankowski? Hmm. Quinn is two years younger. On the other hand, Jankowski can generally stay on the field. Neither has much power; Jankowski seems to actually have some on-base skills. Neither belongs in a regular outfield job, though. All in all, I think I'd rather have Jankowski on the bench in 2022 than Quinn, if I have to choose.

You might argue that Quinn has more "upside," since he's younger - but he'll be playing at 29 in 2022, so it's not as if he's at an age where improvement might actually be expected. Jankowski will play at 31, so he's marginally more likely to decline - but if he's on the roster, he'll be a FA after 2022, so longer-term decline is irrelevant. If they opt for Quinn, he'll just break down again.

[andyb]

Curtis Mead interview. Interestingly the Phillies have all their English-speaking players taking Spanish a couple of days a week at GCL. Sounds like a good idea to me as it is probably really easy for the clubhouse to evolve into two completely separate groups.

A Conversation With Tampa Bay Rays Prospect Curtis Mead

[Philsmania]

Former MLB pitcher on Chase Utley: ‘If I could hit him every time, I would'

I always got the sense that those great Phillies' teams from 2007-11 were not terribly well-liked around the game. Utley was seen by many as a dirty player. Rollins was perceived by some as a trash-talker. Victorino was seen as something of a goon (he was in the middle of a couple of bench-clearing dustups). Some thought Hamels was something of a punk (see Mike Rizzo's fake tough comments). And, some said Manuel for all of bumpkin charm was a cunning sign-stealer.

[schillingfan]

But at least they didn’t hide in the dugout like the Rockies when the grounds crew was in jeopardy trying to put the tarp on the field.

[andyb]

Josh Bonifay lands on his feet:

Sources: Rangers hire Philadelphia’s Josh Bonifay as farm director

[zambonir]

Oh no, now we won't have him as a consultant!

Time will tell but I feel like the Phillies frequently epitomize the opposite of Bum Phillips' famoust quote (and especially for managers and the front office), "He can take his'n and beat your'n and take your'n and beat his'n."

[Philsmania]

One less front office salary to pay.

[zambonir]

Maybe they can hire Klentak too.

[Philsmania]

I predict that Klentak eventually ends up either back with DiPoto in Seattle or in another line of work (like Galdi).

[bkox]

Rangers Release Drew Anderson

[zambonir]

Barely remember him at this point. Thought you meant Chase! (But he would be a free agent.)

[bkox]

Drew Anderson was a 21st round draft pick by the Phillies in 2012

He pitched 10 games over 3 seasons (2017, 18 and 19) putting up an 0-1 record with a 7.71 ERA

Actually pitched decently for the Rangers this year. 3.27 ERA and 1.182 WHIP in 22 innings... but only 3.7 k/9