MLB (Non-Phillies) Hot Stove, 2024-25

[zambonir]

Arguably neither Florida franchise has never proved that viable, between the weather, the large number of transplants and the spring training presence. But they Rays have been a great small market team. Not a great owner but they almost managed to get this done before the hurricane happened. Now MLB wants to keep the market but not the owner (or move them to Orlando).

As a fan I don't like big publicly financed stadium deals and I also don't think we should root for MLB to chase new markets or new billionaire owners. If it can happen to the Rays or A's it can happen to the Royals or the Reds. We're just lucky the Phillies are now a big-market franchise that acts and spends like it too.

[andyb]

The big question has always been whether Florida in general is a good baseball market in the Summer when it is so hot and humid. The disposable income audience is often gone from the state. Baseball sees the market television potential (size and wealth) but really discounts the question of whether people will go to games.

Now it is very possible a FL team's market (both Tampa and Orlando) is big enough so the TV dollars make up for everything (compared to a smaller Nashville or Charlotte), but in this era of RSN struggles that probably is not true.

[zambonir]

They do play indoors (or retractable) and Houston and Arlington are only marginally better for weather. But the stadium and the location for the Rays has always been awful, and the Marlins have been too awful as a franchise for the new stadium to fix anything.

And it's a football state. It's hard to imagine there aren't still families and business to go to games, but clearly not enough.

This is all still just politics though. Between Sternberg and St. Pete and now Sternberg and MLB. He clearly doesn't have the juice with the other MLB owners that A's ownership does.

[BostonRoss]

Tropicana Field was never a good stadium, but it’s also a very old ballpark by MLB standards. Only six ballparks are older. At 35, it’s older than the Vet was when it was closed.

[julio]

Tropicana Field was never a good stadium, but it’s also a very old ballpark by MLB standards. Only six ballparks are older. At 35, it’s older than the Vet was when it was closed.

Well, not to defend Tropicana (I don't know how I would!), but "old" doesn't necessarily equate to "bad." Fenway and Wrigley are...iconic. I was first in Fenway in 1972 (it was old then), and I liked it then; loved it when I was back (late 90s?). There's no reason why a park that was designed for baseball (as opposed to generic 'multi-purpose,' really suited for no purpose) should age out in 35 years (or twice that!).

[BostonRoss]

I like the older stadiums, too, but I suspect that neither you nor I attend a lot of games now. Whenever I've attended an MLB game in recent years, the fanbase has trended younger than I remember when I was young myself. I think that a large share of today's fans don't appreciate the experience the same way we do.

I note that the older stadiums are all in very large metro areas, except Kansas City, whose stadium is now over 50 years old (opened shortly after the Vet). The Rogers Centre is about the same age as Tropicana Field. Fenway, Wrigley, and even Dodger Stadium can be sold as historic treasures, and they've all been updated substantially in recent years.

I think there's a reason that most teams have felt the need to build new stadiums every 30 to 35 years (20 years if you're the Braves). Two teams with newer stadiums than Tropicana have built new facilities. The next stadium built after Tropicana (White Sox) isn't doing well. Montreal's stadium was almost 40 years when the Expos moved. The Oakland Coliseum is well over 50 years old.

It will be interesting to see how the stadiums built around the time CBP park was constructed are viewed in 10 years.

[zambonir]

Baseball parks that are actually old and were good to begin with don't necessarily equate bad, even if they aren't modern. But I'm not sure any late-20th century indoor ballparks ever were (nor the multi-use ones, though I do still kind of miss the wind at Candlestick). They have gotten better with the retractables, and supposedly the Trop could be improved/salvaged, but nobody truly wanted that. Now they might give it a go, possibly.

The Rangers somehow didn't put a roof on their big-deal new single-use ballpark and then managed to get another one after just 25 years (which is hideous, and the old one still stands).

[Philsmania]

A big part of the Rays' stadium problem is location. Simply put, St. Petersburg isn't terribly accessible for the rest of the Tampa metropolitan area, especially during rush hour traffic which a fan would have to traverse to get to an evening game (and traffic in Florida with all of its political wisdom is BRUTAL). Someone in the suburbs of east of Tampa--probably within no more than 20-25 miles as the proverbial crow flies--would probably need 90 minutes or more to drive to a Rays game. Just my opinion, but the Rays' park really needs to be in Tampa in the center of the metro area.

[Philsmania]

It will be interesting to see how the stadiums built around the time CBP park was constructed are viewed in 10 years.

There have been whispers that Lurie wants a new stadium to replace LFF already.

[Philsmania]

Tropicana Field was never a good stadium, but it’s also a very old ballpark by MLB standards. Only six ballparks are older. At 35, it’s older than the Vet was when it was closed.

Yes, it is that old but it was teamless for eight years (1990-97). St. Pete put the cart before the horse in that regard.

[zambonir]

Well, it was teamless for three years. It just didn't have a baseball team. And it was an awful hockey arena too.

[andyb]

Tampa is kind of a case study in lack of zoning. Suburban sprawl everywhere and not much public transit. Easier to get away with in Texas with fewer bodies of water to navigate.

Ballpark location is not ideal, but it would probably have long commutes even if it were in the center of Tampa.

[zambonir]

https://bsky.app/profile/jjcoop36.bsky.social/post/3lkho4pofyc2c

Simple solution!

[BostonRoss]

Is the solution to move to Raymond James or for the Rays to play like the Savannah Bananas? I vote for the latter.

[zambonir]

Ha, why not both?

[flyers19rw]

Then he can build it

[zambonir]

He wants a retractable roof so they can host Super Bowls and Final Fours but still have outdoor football too. The' lease is until 2032, and I would think there's not a lot of land available if the currently planned projects actually come to fruition. They would probably have to end up at the Navy Yard.

And yeah, nobody's going to want to pay for a new palce. Either way, if he wants these things to happen while he's still running the show and able to enjoy it, a renovation makes more sense. Question is can you actually play an NFL season (or two?) through it?

[andyb]

The solution might be to tear down the current stadium rather than repair it. The damaged roof really gives them an excuse to do that even if it means an extra year or two in Tampa. When you re-use an existing site it is always easier than using a new one, especially if most of the logistical hassle (i.e. not having any stadium for a few years) already exists.

[zambonir]

Yeah but nobody wants that either (not the team, league or city). The new one is supposed to be downtown and part of a bigger redevelopment. The land is already there. The construction delays, cost overruns and possible future economic problems that already sunk this agreement exist either way. Maybe it would be cheaper to do there but it would be a less successful/less lucrative endeavor.

He's either gonna get permission to move, be forced to sell, or they will go back to the table. Staying in St Pete or doing something with Tampa or Orlando would still be the goal; for one thing MLB has no interest in losing any future expansion markets with another move.

(Actually, looking at it more closely, it is already being built at the same site? They just plan to develop around it to make it more connected to downtown. And just since this fell apart someone has already offered to buy and develop the non-stadium portion of it, which would also create the possibility of either forcing Sternberg back to the table or just waiting to work with new ownership.)

[andyb]

Orlando might be better weather-wise in terms of frequent rain in the Summer - and also has the built-in tourist advantage for selling tickets.