Mackanin will not be extended beyond this year as manager

zambonir 2017-09-29 23:35:48 UTC #21

I don't think it signals too much about 2018, if anything a new manager is under less pressure, especially as he also breaks in three or four new starters and the rotation adjusts to a new pitching coach. They need to make a run at .500 but they don't have to be in the playoff mix (though the two do overlap, these days).

Honestly I think this was always the plan, or they wouldn't have let Mackanin start the season w/o the 2018 extension. Then the Benoit thing kind of forced Klentak's hand. I don't know that Klentak has someone in mind but I do think that when he took the job and kept Mackanin he certainly knew he'd be hiring his own manager by 2019 at the latest.

If all the off-season signings had worked out better and the team had won 81 games this year, you would have had to let Mackanin see it through for one more season.

My guess is all the coaches are gone except for Morandini and Stairs. Maybe Bowa goes back to 3B but at his age he might be willing to shift into a Clearwater/part-time gig. Samuel will leave if he's not the manager (and he won't be). Wathan could be promoted too (and Morandini could also be sent back to manage Reading or LV).

I think this is different from Charlie, Mackanin obviously has a lot of knowledge and opinions about the current 25 and 40-man roster that can be useful to Klentak.Not that Charlie doesn't bring something to the table because I think he does but he's also around for sentimental reasons, Middleton is not immune to that.

andyb 2017-09-29 23:43:14 UTC #22

In August Klentak was quoted multiple times that he was more interested in pitchers on short term deals. He was publicly shying away from saying he wanted to compete for guys like Darvish and Lynn. Maybe it was a smoke screen, but the signal was pretty clear to me (and ignited some criticism here for not competing for the more expensive long term free agents).

zambonir 2017-09-29 23:49:10 UTC #23

I'm sure if he said it you can find it but I don't recall any hard quotes saying that, just some tea leaf-reading. Such as:

zambonir 2017-09-30 00:15:34 UTC #24

Bowa won't be rushing to interview with any other organization

Austinfan 2017-09-30 02:38:53 UTC #25

During the game, Klentak talked about Mac living in Arizona and it being a perfect place to scout players.
So it sounds more like being the oversight guy for West Coast scouting than a Philly job.

zambonir 2017-09-30 02:45:07 UTC #26

He'll do a little bit of everything just like Charlie does in Florida. In both cases the fancy title is basically for show, and because they both initially got paid better due to the existing $ on their contracts. They are both essentially scouts and guest instructors, and with all the recent changes (including Del Ennis retiring) there's certainly room for one old-timer among whoever Klentak might bring in.

LoneStarPhan 2017-09-30 03:09:00 UTC #27

Mackanin is one of 8 men to play for, coach for, and manage the Phillies. Bowa and Sandberg would also fit this description. That leaves five.

Gary Varsho managed for two games when Bowa was let go and played for the Phillies before being hired as a coach. That should make him one of the eight.

John Vukovich also finished up a season as interim manager and of course was a long time coach and had played for the Phillies.

Pat Corrales played for and managed the Phillies but I'm not sure if he was ever a coach, but I think he was. Dallas Green and Ben Chapman played for and managed the Phillies but I don't know that either was ever a coach.

So I think Mackanin, Bowa, Sandberg, Varsho, Vukovich, and Corrales are six of the eight.

Any thoughts on those six and others who should be on the list of eight?

andyb 2017-09-30 03:59:10 UTC #28

Whenever you see quotes like that they are generally talking to the reporters off the record.

"The Phillies have money to spend. They would like to spend it, for now, on short-term commitments. That means they’ll be in the market for pitchers like Jason Vargas, Trevor Cahill, and Chris Tillman — but not the top options in Yu Darvish or Jake Arrieta."

There were several other articles around that time that alluded to this also. Stuff like that doesn't get out there by accident.

I think they might be reconsidering the top of the market a bit with the development of the offense and also the change of managers. They still will probably try for a deal for a guy like Stroman first. Even go get a Jeff Samardzija inexpensively because it would be about assuming the contract.

EDmuch 2017-09-30 12:20:47 UTC #29

The move I don't understand very well, but has been suggested in some articles, is how we are supposed to get Yelich without taking Stanton, too.

Austinfan 2017-09-30 12:44:05 UTC #30

Klentak will talk to everyone, when an agent starts the conversation with "We're thinking about a 5-6 year deal", 'hello, hello, are you still there?"
He'll be happy to spend money, but it's clear there's no intention of taking on expensive out years when this team is competitive but the free agent won't be.

EDmuch 2017-09-30 13:19:02 UTC #31

AF, your comment is a tautology.

tom81 2017-09-30 13:49:19 UTC #32

We get Yelich by taking on other bad contracts that the Marlins are trying to dump. They reportedly want to get to the $50-$85 million range and are committed to $132 million next year. There is a lot of payroll we could take on besides Stanton. We could always flip/keep/waive the bad contracts.

Austinfan 2017-09-30 14:03:56 UTC #33

They have a bunch of older players like Prado that we could take and then cut, eating the money.

flyers19rw 2017-09-30 15:09:52 UTC #34

Miami has so many bad contracts. A problem for them is that everybody knows that. If teams are going to take their salary from them, they're going to want real assets coming back like Yelich, Stanton or Realmuto. Realistically, why would any organization want Prado, Volquez or Gordon without getting one of their better players for basically nothing.
IMO, the Phillies have better options to improve the club over the winter than acquiring Yelich or Gordon. If Miami wants to trade Stanton, that's different. With the emergence of Altherr and Williams, the Phillies don't need Miami's OFs. They'd be nice to get but they're no longer necessities. Putting money into FA pitching like Lynn and Cobb might be a better investment for the organization. With the way that the offense is going now, with having Nola, Lynn, Cobb, Eichkoff, Pivetta, et al the makings of a rotation that could compete for the POs is there.

California_Dreamin 2017-09-30 19:38:25 UTC #35

What is the consensus on Brad Ausmus as a manager. Not advocating for him or anything like that but it seems Klentak may have been acting on his surprise that someone might have become available that he didn't believe would be and Ausmus was just let go.

I also wondered if Sciosia was on thin ice here in SoCal, though I have heard nothing to this. And perhaps it will be Wathan in the end. It just seems that MK reacted swiftly to a turn of events he did not anticipate.

That said, I believe he would have preferred to do it at that managerial meeting scheduled for today but when Peter Mac made it publicly known that there was one scheduled for today he had to push the envelope up a day so the press wouldn't almost literally be waiting at the door when they exited to find out what had taken place.

allentown 2017-09-30 19:49:49 UTC #36

Pete has been too chatty and friendly with the media for my taste. Reid was blasted by media for being too arrogant and saying next to nothing, but a manager needs to learn that it is his job to say next to nothing, unless like Jordan, he can master the art of only saying positive things about his guy. The media person has yet to be hired who won't stir up a team-damaging ruckus to get prominent placement and lots of attention to his article. The media are happier bashing than applauding the team, unless the team is having a great year, and even then they will find opportunities to bash and cause harmful disruptions. Really, just study an Andy Reid presser. If you are commenting about Herrera or Franco or Rupp, other than to extol them for something or other, then the manager and coaches need to just shut up. The media are not their therapist, not their excuse machine, not the folks to successfully argue for their contract extension, and not their conduit for getting a player's attention. That can only harm the team. And you just don't praise a guy like Galvis for 'leadership' after he excoriates a teammate in front of the media.

I know that many fans like 'truth' from the manager and coaches, as in confirmation of their peeves against a particular player. You can glory in that confirmation or you can have tight lipped staff and a more successful organization. You can't have both.

We've seen what being the media darling will get a manager. He was still fired, but the press bemoaned his fate and wrote nice things about him.

zambonir 2017-09-30 20:06:47 UTC #37

I don't think it was a big surprise that Ausmus was let go, doubt that was a factor. He's certainly a guy I would interview though.

And no way Scioscia is in the mix, he never actually got along with the Angels' analytical front office, even though Klentak stayed through that final season after DiPoto got fired.

Klentak said the decision was made Thursday morning at an already-scheduled organization meeting and he didn't want to keep it a secret until tomorrow. He knew what he was going to do before that meeting (or was close to deciding and just needed to run it by the group). Pete's comments had nothing to do with it. If anything, his comments reflected the fact that he had heard something, since it's not normal for a manager who is already under contract (on an extension that was only 10 weeks old) to feel like he might not be coming back unless he has a reason to feel that way.

I still think he was a pretty good manager, I don't think anything he did - in the dugout or a press conference - cost the team a win any more than something another manager might have done. If this group we've seen the last two months is really destined to be part of a championship core he will deserve a lot of credit.

And if Herrera gets in the HoF I bet Pete inducts him! (Nah, it'll be Velandia. Interesting to see Philly.com put him on the candidate list.)

andyb 2017-09-30 22:36:28 UTC #38

Velandia is kind of out of the blue. And a friend of Pete's. No idea how he is on analytics, but as one of the youngest guys on that list he might be pretty good. Of course they also noted Dave Martinez as more of the model analytics candidate.

The names that are not the most obvious suspects (older retread, long ties to the organization) are the most intriguing to me. Not sure if it is a real list of serious candidates of course.

zambonir 2017-09-30 22:43:00 UTC #39

The lists always have mix of serious reporting, total speculation and jokes. One of them has Ruben Amaro Jr. on it.

tom81 2017-10-01 00:32:47 UTC #40

I’d like to see Joe Girardi included in the list of people they are considering, his contract is up at the end of the season.