Is there a decent CF available through trade

[zambonir]

Haseley's probably an upgrade.

[andyb]

He is kind of a CF defensive tweener is also. And neither is hitting so I am not sure Haseley is better. I hope he does well, but chances are greater than 50-50 he is back down in a couple of weeks when some other option is available (trade, Quinn, stopgap FA). Too bad we were not looking when Gerardo Parra was available. He has been pretty good for the Nats.

[zambonir]

I was kind of kidding but as long as it doesn't mess with his development I'd rather see Haseley hit .200 than Altherr. I might also send down Gosselin rather than Haseley once Quinn comes back. He could still get 2-3 starts a week.

I guess you could bring Altherr back over Gosselin in the meantime but I think that ship has sailed. True about Parra.

[andyb]

Haseley being left-handed and Quinn right-handed would make a potential platoon if Kingery is the full time 3B. So I guess I would send Gosselin down next. We clearly trust Rodriguez in the field more than Gosselin. I assume they do not want to do anything with Franco now as well.

[zambonir]

Kinda like this Haseley kid

[flyers19rw]

If Bruce can hit enough, some of the sting of losing Cutch goes away. At the same time if Hasely can perform better than Odubel did, overall the OF is better. If Hasely and possibly Quinn can handle CF, then Kingery could take over 3B from the declining Franco. Overall improvement.

[zambonir]

Jayson Stark (jaysonst)

This isn't as big a deal as it seems, since the trade market is expected to heat up early this year. Basically three weeks to see how things shake out. If Kingery ends up staying at 3B and Quinn gets hurt again then you probably need a new plan - unless Haseley thrives.

[flyers19rw]

I get where you’re coming from regarding injuries since have been so many of them. However let’s not prepare for trouble until it happens. If Quinn goes down, then it’s up to Hasely to hold down the job. If he fails, Kingery goes back to the OF. There are back ups to failure within the system. For all we know, Hasely can fill the CF bill on his own and that solves the problem. Obtaining Bruce could be the biggest in season move that the Phillies make this year. (Providing his left knee holds up.)

[zambonir]

You can't possibly prepare for anything on the assumption that Roman Quinn will stay healthy. Or even perform. We remember his highlights, but he has actually been a bad player more often than not (even if his health is the reason for that). Making him a starting CF is kind of like the old definition of insanity (hoping he can contribute as a bench player, less so).

The good news is Haseley can probably match Quinn's career OPS.

But then you've got Franco. If Kingery isn't playing 3B, we might need one.

[bkeich]

But then you've got Franco. If Kingery isn't playing 3B, we might need one.

It also assumes that there will be no more injuries, which of course is incorrect. Kingery is our super sub, counting on him to start in a spot for the rest of the year is probably a mistake. If it isnt Franco than I would rather get a 3B than "use up" Kingery there since Kingery is the backup at 6 positions (not 1B or C).

The other reason this has to be solved relatively soon is the trade deadline looming in 7 weeks. We can't just say "if this player doesnt work out", that is what you say in April. We still have a little evaluation time but as of the trade deadline you are stuck with the guys you have. CF and 3B are still very unsettled, and frankly we need probably 2 relievers at this point as the only guys I could say you can count on are Neris and Morgan.

[andyb]

The good news is Haseley can probably match Quinn's career OPS.

Probably 50-50 on that. Quinn is at 684 and Haseley was not exactly putting up a 900 OPS in AA. He probably is a 750-800 OPS guy with some experience. Getting to 700 now would be at best 50-50. Quinn is better defensively too.

If Quinn is healthy he is going to get at least 50% of the playing time until he proves he is worse than Haseley.

[zambonir]

I was somewhat kidding/being pessimistic about Quinn. But he can only produce if he's healthy, consistently. When he isn't, he's either not on the field or he's pretty much a negative-WAR player.

Now all of a sudden we want Kingery to be a supersub? So long as he's hitting like he is he should play every day. Easier to upgrade the bench then find a new starting 3B probably. I think the big question is whether Franco can even be on the team. Inquirer newsletter actually noted this yesterday too. He can't run and he can't play any other position (besides the one already manned by a RHB who never takes a day off). I suppose in the playoffs they might go with a five-man bench (certainly in the early rounds) and you do have a DH to consider.

We don't need two relievers - maybe not even one - if everyone comes back. Of course that's unlikely, so they probably will get a couple, but you might actually have to trade someone like Garcia and Hammer, who could help the team for years to come, if you're really serious about it.

They won't be passive. If teams start selling before the All-Star break we'll be looking.

Depth is hard. Consider Nick Williams, for instance. Clearly the best thing for everyone would be a trade. But what if Bruce or Harper got injured? And if the team is not prepared to take an absolutist stand against Herrera - which no team in MLB (or any sport?) ever has - he may yet be needed.

[andyb]

Playoff roster I am sure will have an extra man on the bench. Franco is definitely a bad bench player because of his lack of flexibility. If CF does not stabilize they'll need Kingery there more. But if Kingery is your starting 3B, Sean Rodriguez is probably a better bench player than Franco and one would probably want to go get a more flexible bench player. Bruce also is now the backup 1B. Bats left, so it makes more sense to start him at 1B on the occasional off day for Hoskins than Franco.

I think they get a fresh, healthy arm in relief. Just not sure it is a back end type. Probably more of a durable Craig Stammen type that can pitch regularly and can be stretched to two innings. There is too much riding on this season to count on the bullpen to get healthier. Even if a couple come back, we probably have a couple that were never great in the first place that are in our mix.

[zambonir]

Even if a couple come back, we probably have a couple that were never great in the first place that are in our mix.

Well, that's the real issue isn't it? In a perfect world where everyone is healthy you still would want an upgrade over Nicasio. Velasquez can probably be seen as Arano's replacement. Alvarez is fine as the third option for lefties (Robertson being the other, and they still like Hunter there too) but not necessarily the second.

I think it can still be a "back-end type," it just won't be a Proven Closer. I think one of the reasons they (and several other teams, like the Twins) were never truly all-in on Kimbrel is he did apparently want to be guaranteed saves.

[schillingfan]

How do you get a fresh healthy arm in trade, unless you trade for someone’s minor leaguer? If the player is any good, his arm is starting to be overused.

[zambonir]

Well, it's all relative of course. You really never know where relief help is going to come from, Romero and Eyre were both dumpster dives (Romero more so than Eyre). Turk Wendell of course is not remembered fondly. Wasn't LA a deadline acquisition the second time around?

Interesting tangent: one of the reasons the Cubs got Kimbrel is because they have more money because of Zobrist being on the restricted list while he's not paid. Still wondering if that applies to a suspended player.

[andyb]

More currently healthy arm than fresh arm I guess. There are lots of relievers who can appear 70 times in a season without getting hurt. That is why I threw out Stammen as an example. We just need a credible 80-inning reliever IMO before we start thinking about the back end of the bullpen. Most relievers eventually will get hurt. We just don't know when.

[phillychuck]

I think SF is one of the original members of the "most relievers are a fungible commodity" school (of which I am a proud member myself). They get hurt, have awful off-years, get hot, get wild, etc. pretty unpredictably. Rheal Cormier (for example) would go a month without giving up a run, then give up 5 in 0.1 IP...I remember it well (look at his 2002 season for example). Biggest crapshoot in sports.

[zambonir]

They're not really that different from hitters, it's just that the variability is far more noticeable (and impactful) because of the situation and small sample. What you just said about Rheal Cormier is also true of Rhys Hoskins, but he does it over 700 ABs not 200, and he's not pitching the 8th in a one-run game.

There is a big package of articles about relief pitchers in the new Sports Illustrated, one is about the history of the save stat and the other is about the death of closers. In fact, closers themselves have become fungible - more pitchers than ever are earning saves, the league leaders in saves are earning a lot fewer of them. A closer hasn't even made the last out of the World Series for 9 years (it's mostly been starters finishing a clinching game).

At the same time I think relievers are more talented and important than ever. They have stuff, and match-ups mean you're not just closing your eyes and hoping your 5th-best guy can get through an inning.

[schillingfan]

I think SF is one of the original members of the "most relievers are a fungible commodity" school (of which I am a proud member myself). They get hurt, have awful off-years, get hot, get wild, etc. pretty unpredictably. Rheal Cormier (for example) would go a month without giving up a run, then give up 5 in 0.1 IP...I remember it well (look at his 2002 season for example). Biggest crapshoot in sports.

Not only the biggest crapshoot but also the biggest oxymoron of good and healthy. No manager can resist continually using a trusted reliever, that’s why I predicted on Seranthony would have a difficult, possibly injured year. Relievers are becoming more important as starters barely go six innings, but managers have not figured out the best way to keep the arms fresh, which I don’t think is playing 45 man roster. Is anyone looking at stats like times warmed up, pitching to more batters? It drives me crazy when a reliever gets the first two guys out and is then removed so another reliever pitches to the next guy.