17 Philadelphia Phillies (M Leiter Jr.) @ Washington Nationals (E Jackson)

Lucky_Beagle 2017-09-10 15:00:49 UTC #121

Amen, We have been subjected to more Kim than necessary. He isn't going to be here next year so why keep running him out there? hmmmm maybe the PHillies are playing for 1.1 next draft!

LoneStarPhan 2017-09-10 15:07:38 UTC #122

Kim has plugged a hole when the Phillies were short of outfielders. He has no future with the Phillies and likely will see little playing time once Altherr returns. Since Aaron played in the outfield late in the game yesterday, I also hope to see him in the lineup today. There is no reason that Williams-Herrera-Altherr is not the outfield for almost all the remaining games this season.

Austinfan 2017-09-10 15:32:53 UTC #123

Kim has shown improvement since he arrived, Stairs is supposed to be fixing his swing to generate more power.
Phillies will probably have five backups next year, Alfaro, Knapp, Florimon?, ???, ???
There's probably a role for a 1B/OF/LH pinchhitter like Kim or Nava.

Right now there's a hole in the organization, Walding, Mora, Valentin, Quinn, Pullin, Tocci, Cozens, Tromp will be AAA ball next year, but other than Perkins, who is borderline, who is ready to fill bench roles?

zambonir 2017-09-10 15:52:19 UTC #124

Of course they will sign some bench guys but it's unlikely to be Kim. But, Galvis apparently said he prefers not to play the OF, mentioned some arm soreness after doing it.

Still got Hoskins playing the OF too of course.

EDmuch 2017-09-10 16:38:18 UTC #125

If the only "hole" is that we are short of potential bench players, I will gladly take that problem and deal with it.

Lawman 2017-09-10 16:47:02 UTC #126

I guess the question is who has more upside? Nave, Kim, or Perkins?

zambonir 2017-09-10 20:51:57 UTC #127

Nava and Kim are both free agents, I wouldn't offer either anything more than a minor league deal (which is how Nava got here in the first place) but then I feel the same way about Florimon. Perkins probably won't be on the 40 either. When it comes down to the end of spring training I'm sure a young player or players will make it (as Stassi and Knapp did) and so will a vet (as Nava did).

I still suspect they will trade Rupp and sign a veteran catcher to back up Alfaro. Whether they would also keep Knapp depends what they could get for them. Of course I thought they'd carry one of the vet catchers this year, so...

And as things currently stand Crawford or Galvis will also be one of the bench players, but we'll see how that actually plays out, and when.

They are gonna have to bring in a decent LH bat who can play 1B, OF, my guess is that player is a veteran, and on a guaranteed contract, since he'll be spelling/supporting multiple young players.

andyb 2017-09-10 22:55:31 UTC #128

That is about the most far fetched idea I have ever seen. You just have this notion that Stairs is God for some reason. Kim is 29 years old and never has had much power and frankly has about as little bat speed as I have seen in a major league player. He has good plate discipline and that is pretty much it. He is not going to suddenly get better in 2 weeks with Stairs. And we actually have no idea whether Stairs is a better than average coach in the first place. Sometimes you just attach yourself to a narrative and keep pushing it with zero evidence.

Austinfan 2017-09-11 00:01:44 UTC #129

They're giving him a shot, not marrying the guy.

But if you go with Williams - Herrera - Altherr with Quinn or someother young OF as a possible callup in mid-season, no quality veteran OF is going to sign here.
Kendrick did because they could promise him PT and a trade to a contender.
So whether it's Kim or Nava or . . . it's going to be someone like them. Whch along with injuries, is why they kept Kim on the roster, to audition him (he's not gettng real money from anyone next year).

Same with veteran IFs and catchers, you're going to sign either marginal players or older veterans who can't get a decent one year paycheck elsewhere.

Nor are you going to put Galvis or Hernandez on the bench, they either start or they're traded.
And you're not going to put Kingery or Crawford on the bench, they start in Lehigh or Philly.
Unfortunately, the young players who have potential as reserves are going to be in Lehigh, Cozens (platoon 1B/OF), Tromp, Tocci, Pullin, Valentin, Mora, Walding.
Which is why I think they'll go with three catchers, they might replace Rupp with a veteran for pitcher development, but they'll keep Alfaro and Knapp for bench depth.
It's just a one year blip, they'll sign some guys in FA and invite some guys to ST.

julio 2017-09-11 00:09:18 UTC #130

Angelo Mora appears to be eligible for minor-league free agency, if he's not on the 40-man roster this winter... and he's not going to be on the 40-man roster this winter.

andyb 2017-09-11 03:59:18 UTC #131

Perkins has more of a future than Kim. If they are resting Herrera then Perkins should play over Kim who has zero future in the organization. They took him to offset salary. Baltimore wanted to get rid of him because he was terrible. Last year's superficial good stats were first time around the league luck. Even Baltimore wanted to send him to the minors at the beginning of last year because what they saw in the Spring was not a major league player. Kim is probably below the level of a AAAA outfielder because even his defense is sub-par. Tocci would do a better job now because he can at least catch the ball.

zambonir 2017-09-11 15:41:53 UTC #132

Kim was supposed to let them trade Nava and get them to September. He got a little more playing time 'cause of the injuries. But somebody must like him 'cause even if you didn't go with a younger player, Nava has all of two ABs in September. Maybe he's not truly healthy either.

Kim has had a mini-hot streak this month so that might be all there is to it.

julio 2017-09-11 16:52:12 UTC #133

Really?

In two seasons at Reading (ages 23-24), Perkins managed an OPS of .782. In Reading.
In three seasons at Lehigh Valley (ages 23, 25-26), he managed an OPS of .717.
In limited play in Philly this season, he's been awful (OPS of .452).

Kim has not been very good - career ML OPS of .724 - but not awful, either.

Kim's contract allows him to take free agency this winter, so he's likely gone. The Phils could choose to re-sign him, but 1) they may not; and 2) he may want to be elsewhere.

Perkins? Given the logjam of prospects at risk in the Rule 5 draft if not added to the 40-man roster this winter, Perkins may well be outrighted off the roster between now and November. He's a season short of eligibility for minor-league free agency, so he won't go away in that manner. He might be claimed on waivers if/when the Phils ask outright waivers...but I don't think it's likely. He turns 27 the end of the month, he's been awful at the plate in the majors, and mediocre in the high minors. He's nothing special defensively.

If I were Klentak, I would outright Perkins in October. If he's claimed, I don't care - but I don't expect it. Later... either this winter or in the spring, I have to decide whether I need him to fill out a AAA outfield roster, or whether it's time to just part ways. But I don't see him as particularly useful on a major-league bench - he's not a particularly good defensive replacement, and he's not a pinch-hitting threat. He's a warm body for an organization that has nothing better, but that's all.

Is that "more of a future than Kim"? Given Kim's .354 lifetime OBP, I don't think so. Kim's value is limited, but I don't see it as zero. Can't say that about Perkins.

bkox 2017-09-11 17:03:23 UTC #134

Kim is a butcher in the OF. Neither Kim nor Perkins should be part of our OF in 2018

andyb 2017-09-11 19:39:22 UTC #135

Here in DC I have actually seen Kim up close a bit since I get all the O's games. That 724 OPS is colored by the adjustment period of the league to him. His true performance level is likely sub-700, if that. And at age 29 he is not getting any better.

Perkins is younger so there is potential improvement. Likely better defense too. And he makes less money. So while Perkins likely does not have much of a future, it is better than Kim's. He has better major league tools than Kim does across the board except for strike zone discipline. Kim also should not be seen as a 350+ OBP guy. His progression there is .410 in the first half last year, .353 in the second half, and then .312 this year. A straight downward trend as the league got the book on an unconventional player.

Austinfan 2017-09-11 19:42:17 UTC #136

This is why I want to see both Knapp and Alfaro play other positions, whether it's Rupp or a veteran pickup, I doubt Knapp or Alfaro start at catcher in 2018, Knapp has a limited arm and Alfaro needs a lot of work.
But if they can play 1B and the corner OF spots off the bench, you only need one OF on the bench.
Obviously, if an OF was seriously hurt, you'd look for a long-term replacement out of Lehigh or in a trade.
But I'd like so PH options and late inning double switch options on the bench.

EDmuch 2017-09-12 13:02:29 UTC #137

I want to be done with Perkins. He can't hit and he can't field. give me Nava over him. At least Nava can hit a little bit. Perkins has been exposed to be a AAAAA out fielder on a good day.

julio 2017-09-12 15:09:24 UTC #138

This was pretty much my point. Perkins has given no indication that he's really good enough, even for a fifth outfielder role. Andyb talks about his tools being better than Kim (except for controlling the strike zone, which as Sickels would say, isn't a "tool," so much as a "skill); that may be true - but Perkins will be 27 later this month, and if the tools haven't translated into skills/performance at this point, they're almost certainly not going to. Moreover... Perkins' performance is pretty much what the scouts anticipated when he was drafted, if memory serves - e.g., replacement level as a ceiling, maybe.

Note that this is not an endorsement of Kim. But even if we posit that Kim has little or no value, that doesn't mean Perkins has "more." Perkins is younger than Kim... but then, so is my pet goldfish; that doesn't mean he has more value, if he simply isn't good enough.

California_Dreamin 2017-09-12 15:11:09 UTC #139

I mentioned a few weeks ago that I felt Kim should be released before Sept 1 so A] young players could play and B] perhaps he could hook up with a playoff bound team. Some well respected posters on this site disagreed and felt it was unprofessional to do so but it now appears it might have been a good thing to do because...I knew that if Kim was on the roster Peter Mac would play him, and he has.

This is flat out foolish, Shane Victorino has a better chance of playing OF for the Phils next year than Kim does and every game he plays, its one less opportunity for younger guys to play. Phils should play Altherr/Herrera/Williams every day if possible, we still haven't seen that lineup, perhaps tonight.

September is really spring training 2018 for the team and thats how they should look at it...give Alvarez and Crawford chances to play, use the youngsters, and please get Hoskins to first base as much as possible.

Philsmania 2017-09-12 15:28:47 UTC #140

Mack does seem to like Kim considering how much he has played since the trade. Despite that, I doubt he's in Clearwater in February. Much of his playing time was probably on account of Altherr not being ready to return to action until this past weekend. But yes, I too would like to see how a Williams/Herrera/Altherr OF will do and maybe we will now that Altherr is ready.

As for Perkins, he probably is what he is and I don't think he's worth a 40 man roster spot this offseason. Frankly, Mack deciding between Kim or Perkins is probably a pick-em. Kim or Perkins on the one hand or a healthy Altherr on the other hand should not be.