GDT 8/21/21 Philadelphia Phillies (Nola) @ San Diego Padres (Musgrove)

[zambonir]

I didn't like the decision - especially since he'd been on base twice, but I don't think we would have liked seeing a reliever better, and I don't think it was excessive/abusive. It was also just a bad decision (as well as a bad pitch) by Knapp and Nola on a 3-1 count, and maybe that doesn't happen if he's not tired. The sad thing is this felt like a start that could change the entire direction of his season, but he's had other starts like this season. Now if he goes four innings next time the narrative will obviously be that it was both an emotional and physical hangover.

A bit melodramatic to say the season's over. The season's over if they continue to play .500 baseball, as they have pretty much all year. It's over if they keep losing to teams like the Diamondbacks. Or if Wheeler's running out of gas. But they probably have one more streak in them.

I'd like to see Girardi go, but they're not going to rebuild, and the owner and President both seem okay with him. If they did make a move, do you go find another Kapler? Promote Dusty and hope he's next the Snitker? Who are even Dombrowki's guys at this point? His last two managers were Jim Leyland and John Farrell (though he also hired Cora. Funny, I don't recall anyone talking about the fact that all the success Dombrowski had in Boston was tainted, probably because the Astros took all the heat and because everybody really does cheat).

[Philsmania]

Let me see, Kapler goes elsewhere and becomes a genius while Girardi comes here and becomes a bozo.

What's the common denominator?

The manager is not the problem, in my opinion.

[Philsmania]

Too many old advisors and hangers-on to allow the organization to really change.

The only real hangers-on the baseball side of things are Gillick, Bowa and Manuel and while Gillick probably played a big role in the hiring of McPhail but, otherwise, I think you are overstating the role they play.

Otherwise, I agree with your point about how the McPhail-Klentak regime failed to proverbially "build a culture". Many of us used to snicker at Ed Wade when he talked about "The Phillies Way" but at least he built a positive culture.

[zambonir]

Let me see, Kapler goes elsewhere and becomes a genius while Girardi comes here and becomes a bozo.

What's the common denominator?

The manager is not the problem, in my opinion.

Are you saying it's the players

The Dombrowski hire isn't really all that different from the MacPhail hire. Heck, MacPhail brokered it, and I'm sure Gillick (who is still an owner) was very much on board. Middleton doesn't seem to need advisors, he can make bad decisions, and preserve some of the worst tendencies of the Giles/Monty culture, all by himself, since he's always been a part of it.

[flyers19rw]

The MacPhail/Klentak years have set this organization back a decade. The management became obsessed with numbers and forgot about the fundamentals of the game. The fix is going to be a hard five to seven year journey where scouting and development need to merge to discover baseball players, not just toolsy athletes, and steep them in the fundamentals of the game so that they can learn to play properly. This isn’t and hasn’t been happening here for a decade.

[xogfog]

For you stats guys, I would love to see Nola's numbers pitching from the windup vs. the stretch.

[Philsmania]

The MacPhail/Klentak years have set this organization back a decade. The management became obsessed with numbers and forgot about the fundamentals of the game. The fix is going to be a hard five to seven year journey where scouting and development need to merge to discover baseball players, not just toolsy athletes, and steep them in the fundamentals of the game so that they can learn to play properly. This isn’t and hasn’t been happening here for a decade.

I think you're pretty much right. And, the next regime needs proverbially "build a culture" where guys do things the right way. I think McPhail-Klentak simply believed that everything would fall into place with analytics. They were wrong. It takes more than that.

[Philsmania]

Truth is, the Braves are and will still be the big dog in the division. But, this was probably the year they were vulnerable and could be had after their original outfield imploded and their pitching staff sprung leaks all over the place. Not sure we will get another crack at them.

[bkox]

For you stats guys, I would love to see Nola's numbers pitching from the windup vs. the stretch.

This was actually easy.. since I assume Nola always uses the stretch with men on base.

With bases empty in 2021:

BA/OBP/SLG against: 225/258/386

With runners on: .248/.328/.436

but over his career the numbers are much closer
empty 229/288/374
men on: 232/298/376

This would indicate some mechanics issue in the stretch this season

[zambonir]

When I hear "toolsy athletes" I think about the pre-Klentak years. All of Almaraz's drafts were focused on guys who supposedly could already play baseball. Definitely failed by development and analytics too.

Middleton says he understands this, but he said that in 2015 too, and it's not clear they are on the right path now, either short-term (still trying to wring what they can out of this group) or long-term (Dombrowski is not exactly known as an organization builder).

And Fuld is a Klentak/Kapler holdover on top of that. What will be most revealing is how many people lose their jobs this off-season (be they assistant GMs, scouts, or department heads). But we really are back into the 2015-2019 cycle again, except without the draft position.

[Philsmania]

I think Dombrowski is only here for three years tops to try to get something out of what we have. After that and he departs, they need a new chief who will have carte blanche to bring his own people in. The Phillies have done it bass ackwards twice in a row...hiring scouting and development people first then hiring a new GM to head it all up. It's supposed to be the other way around. Perhaps that's why these capable people from elsewhere didn't want to come here. In the meantime, I don't think I see Dombrowski trying to shake the front office up.

[zambonir]

But that's where it comes back to the advisors/Middleton being the real problem I think. The Middleton/MacPhail/Gillick braintrust fired Klentak mostly for PR reasons, and they also eased Almaraz out, but their actions, for now, say they still believe in what was being built, and that's definitely true if Minnitti and Rice both stay (and Proefrock has been here so long he was the interim GM between Amaro and Klentak).

I don't necessarily think that they will stay though (by their choice if not the Phillies' choice). They aren't under contract after this year, only Klentak is (and he will also probably try to get himself a gig instead of collecting the last year of his contract doing nothing).

No doubt MacPhail will get a ceremonial title. That's The Phillies Way. Heck, I still think it's possible Ruben Amaro Jr. is the president of the team five years from now.