GDT 7/31/19 San Francisco Giants (Samardzija) @ Philadelphia Phillies (Velasquez)

[bkeich]

Weird eh?

[andyb]

The consensus on Velazquez is that he does have a starter's arsenel. Just poor command. He has pitched pretty well the last couple of times out. Repeating these comments does not really make them true. It is just hard to believe that Velazquez is so awful after an outing where he gives up 2 runs and Eflin just had bad luck after the outing where he gave up 10 runs. It just seems you frame every comment because you like one pitcher (Eflin) and don't like the other (Velazquez).

Each has starter's stuff. Velazquez has much more movement and better secondary pitches. Eflin has much better control and command but misses fewer bats. I have no idea if Eflin's stuff will play in the pen but it is reasonable for the Phillies to try it and he does throw in the mid 90s so maybe he can touch 97-98 in short outings. At this point in the rotation Velazquez is pitching better than Eflin so deserves the spot. In the medium term though we probably have no rotation spot after Nola that is safe, so we should keep Eflin around no matter what.

I wonder if in the back of the team's mind they want to go to tandem starters for most of the rotation in September when rosters expand. That would have Eflin, and probably De Los Santos or Irvin serving as 3-4 inning tandems to our mediocre starters (Smyly and Vargas included). With expanded rosters we should be able to do that in one more year before the roster rules change.

[zambonir]

That said Lauber claimed, perhaps incorrectly, that his suspension doesn't begin until Friday. If that's the case there may have been a miscommunication between the manager and the front office, or a misunderstanding between the manager and Neris. I wouldn't fire anyone for it but would be a pretty unfortunate thing.

Also do they have to play with 24?

[Austinfan]

There's something wrong with Eflin independent of Velasquez.
I'd have shut him down and sent him to some specialists rather than put him in the bullpen.

But Velasquez hasn't improved his breaking ball, much less develop a changeup or other third pitch.
So much for his "secondary pitches" - right now he has one and it's bad.
It was so bad he couldn't throw one for strikes and just kept pumping FBs.
Once he tired, the FB lost its movement and was a batting practice pitch.

Velasquez will end up in the pen b/c his FB is good enough for 1-2 innings for that role, and all he then needs is a "show me" breaking ball - but he won't be a setup man or closer until he develops a consistent slider.

[andyb]

Whenever VV pitches poorly you say he has bad pitches or not a starter's repertoire or is resistant to coaching. Whenever Eflin has issues it must be something physical that is not his fault. You make these excuses without evidence all the time. Eflin's velocity has been the same this month. Do pitchers have bad stretches? Of course. But you just have this fixed narrative with these pitchers that shape every comment and that narrative is not really based on facts.

VV has a good starter's repertoire but poor command. Eflin has the command but does not miss bats. It is really not much more complicated than that.

[Austinfan]

Velasquez does not have a good repertoire of pitches.
He has an explosive FB with great late movement, that's his out pitch.
At times he has a decent slider, but he doesn't have good command of it.
He throws a curve which is really just a slower version of his slider (87 to 84 MPH)
He gave up throwing the change and the two seamer, both which were subpar last year.

His future is as a FB/slider RP.

[andyb]

Velasquez has good enough stuff that he really did not need his 4th pitch. That does not mean he does not have starter's stuff. The team upped his fastball usage this year because it is his best pitch. Some starters can throw 70% fastballs and some can't. Having 2 different speeds of breaking pitches is plenty for him. Does he command the breaking pitches well? Not consistently. That is a completely different issue than not having the pitches though.

And completely different than making an excuse every time Eflin pitches poorly. Eflin is a back end starter because his breaking stuff is not good enough to miss bats consistently and his fastball is pretty straight. He is still useful because he generally runs low pitch counts and can pitch deep into games when he is on. He has never really been a number 3 starter or better though and he won't be if he does not develop more out pitches. Velasquez won't be without better command either. They both have issues. You just need to recognize the bias in your posts. Whenever you like someone you make excuses. Sometimes they just are not that good.

[Austinfan]

Eflin has starter type stuff, he may be a good or bad starter, but he has the full portfolio of pitches, so does Irvin. That means he can change up the third time through a lineup. His strength is weak contact which allows him to keep his pitch count down and go deep into games. Now that doesn't mean he'll succeed, but that he's just better suited to starting than relieving.

Velasquez and Pivetta have shown they are two pitch pitchers, and that's better suited to bullpen work.
De Los Santos is in the same situation, if he doesn't develop a plus secondary pitch he's headed to the pen.
Suarez on the other hand should get a shot to start at some point because he has three legitimate pitches.

Even Nola needs three pitches, when he couldn't get his changeup going, he got bombed in the 7th the other night. Hitters time your stuff, and if you can't keep them off balance with a 3rd and hopefully 4th pitch, they'll get to you.