GDT 7/15/22 Philadelphia Phillies (Gibson) @ Miami Marlins (Alcantara)

[julio]

Fangraphs has Odubel with a slightly better Uzr150 than Moniak. Vierling is actually in the negative. He is actually best at RF and 2b (small sample). At least Odubel might pop one here and there.

Realistically, the sample sizes in CF for all three of them for this season are “small,” statistically. Herrera has some prior-year history; but UZR tend to fluctuate rather more than one might like from year to year, so not clear how much weight to place on prior years. (Or, frankly, how much weight to place on UZR at all.)

[andyb]

Given a choice, the team picks Moniak as the best defensive CF moving both Vierling and Herrera to LF or RF. Metrics are close as people have said, but the team's actions are clues also. Last year and a few times at the beginning of the year they deferred to the veteran (Herrera). That has stopped.

The same situation could be true at SS. I think Stott may be better (though Didi has improved a bit this year), but the veteran is the one playing SS. We'll probably not resolve that one this year unless Stott can beat out Didi clearly as the starter and that has not happened yet even if Didi is not hitting.

[zambonir]

Yes, ultimately it has never made sense to have both of them on the same roster, and even more so since they added Hall (a 1:1 swap with Harper but before that there was playing time in RF too).

I think the organization just doesn't feel the same sense of urgency the fans do. For as long as they don't have anyone else on the roster they have been willing to use the past month to just see what they have. They already know what Herrera is and that he's not good enough; it seems pretty obvious Moniak is no solution for this year either. But they wanted to play him, and if he's costing them games (which he really isn't) there's no one better who would be changing that.

Once Camargo comes back Vierling should theoretically be the starting CF including many games against RHP. And then in two weeks they will either upgrade or they will stand pat, counting on the return of Harper and Segura to juice the offense (and reduce ABs for both Stott and Didi). It would really help if Harper could play the field (making Castellanos and Hall the DH platoon) but that seems unlikely.

[BostonRoss]

There’s just no objective evidence that Moniak is better defensively than Herrera. Even in a small sample size, if there was a big difference between them defensively, we might see something. The eye test doesn’t indicate any real difference, either. And it’s not like anyone ever compared Moniak to Garry Maddox in his years with the Phillies. I don’t think we can conclude the Phillies see such a difference simply because we can’t figure out why they’re carrying a dead offensive bat.

[zambonir]

But I think even the professional baseball evaluators are susceptible to anecdote. Moniak does not embarass himself out there (which is not to say he's made every play). Herrera does, and it ends up on the highlight shows.

If Herrera was still a better player (including in the field) that wouldn't matter but since his defense has declined (both compared to last year and to several years ago when he was actually quite good) his gaffes feel worse.

Anyway. Bottom line is they didn't have enough bodies, and Thomson thought it was good to keep playing his entire roster. Until he didn't. I imagine last night Moniak actually knew he was going down already and they told him to try and leave on a positive note (which didn't help, obviously).

Taking the longer view on the rest of the season, who would you rather put in LF or RF as a defensive sub for Schwarber or Castellanos?

[BostonRoss]

I don't know that Herrera is a better player, but there's no evidence that he's worse than Moniak at this point. Of course neither should be on a contending team.

Taking the longer view on the rest of the season, who would you rather put in LF or RF as a defensive sub for Schwarber or Castellanos?

Jerry Martin?
Whoever it is, he's not on the Phillies yet. There must be a light hitting AAAA type outfielder who's a good defender somewhere.