GDT 5/5/22 New York Mets (Walker, T) @ Philadelphia Phillies (Nola)

[zambonir]

'94 (and '95 were some rough years)

Tonight's #Phillies loss to the #Mets conjured up some repressed memories of May 10, 1994, almost 28 years to the day. Shawn Boskie carries an 8-1 lead into the 9th in Atlanta. #Braves score 7 in the 9th to tie it, win it 9-8 in 15 innings. https://t.co/w3F2yUy2gV

— Mike Sielski ( @MikeSielski ) May 6, 2022

[gmwannabe]

wow, what a tough one. I think the Phils did this same thing to the mets earlier in the year. that's why you play 27 outs. hopefully the bats are starting to wake up. can they come back from this? we'll see. we'll probably hear today that Nick will be out for. at least a month, like Moniak. he is the hottest hitter and I know what should be done about it (a lot on this sight always disagree with me). what a shame. better days are ahead but this was a real gut punch. Alas, there is no joy in Mudville.
gm

[Philsmania]

The next couple will likely be rainouts. If only it could rain every day in Philadelphia until early October.

[Philsmania]

wow, what a tough one. I think the Phils did this same thing to the mets earlier in the year. that's why you play 27 outs. hopefully the bats are starting to wake up. can they come back from this? we'll see. we'll probably hear today that Nick will be out for. at least a month, like Moniak. he is the hottest hitter and I know what should be done about it (a lot on this sight always disagree with me). what a shame. better days are ahead but this was a real gut punch. Alas, there is no joy in Mudville.
gm

Seriously, this is a 90+ loss team.

[Aquapong]

Wtf happened? I only did my morning check of the score and saw the result.

We’ve made big comebacks against other teams late, it’s bound to happen to us once in a while. They can’t get down on themselves…still have three games to play. Doubtful tonight’s game is played, maybe they will try to play two on Saturday.

[gmwannabe]

Philsmania you are correct. so the most they can lose is 2 in this series. At least the pitching (top of the rotation with Wheeler and Nola) is looking better.
gm

[Philsmania]

Meanwhile, this Mets team looks like a very special team.

[andyb]

Bullpen implosion from the new guys (Norwood, Knebel) who were supposed to be immune from that particular Phillies disease.

[allentown]

Seriously, this is a 90+ loss team.

I don't think we will be that bad. For one thing, I doubt we will be among the dead-line sellers/tankers. This start has affected my view on this team. I now expect about 81 wins. Fewer than 72 wins seems... not possible and certainly not acceptable. This team has been in heavy churn mode for some years now and that isn't good if you want to win. I hate to think what would happen if we won less than 72 games.

[zambonir]

wow, what a tough one. I think the Phils did this same thing to the mets earlier in the year.

I was surprised to learn just how rare an event this was, because it does seem like a fairly normal thing, both for the Phillies' oft-horrible bullpen and in general in the three-outcomes era. But I guess those were four or five-run leads. Worst blown lead for the Phillies since '94, biggest comeback by the Mets since '97 and first blown lead of that many runs by any team this season.

[Austinfan]

Girardi showing why he's a good candidate to be fired.

Stuck with Norwood too long, then bring in Knebel after he threw 13 pitches the night before.
And stuck with Knebel, he's my closer, so what if he's getting lite up like a Christmas tree!

Meanwhile Familia only threw 10 pitches in the 8th, but gets pulled to start the 9th.

[zambonir]

I don't think we will be that bad. For one thing, I doubt we will be among the dead-line sellers/tankers. This start has affected my view on this team. I now expect about 81 wins. Fewer than 72 wins seems... not possible and certainly not acceptable. This team has been in heavy churn mode for some years now and that isn't good if you want to win. I hate to think what would happen if we won less than 72 games.

I mean, I think it might be better than if they just won 81 again? Girardi is clearly already gone but another off-season of watching these guys try to figure out how to get from .500 to 86 or 88 wins sounds less exciting to me than dramatic changes. And so does just sitting on the fence at the deadline. What would be worse, trading Segura and Didi and Eflin and the relievers to wave the white flag or actually being buyers with our still-limited prospect pool?

[flyers19rw]

IDK that Girardi is a goner. Middleton can be loyal to a fault. It's hard to assess how he feels about the current situation. Besides, if Girardi gets canned, who is his replacement and would they do any better. His coaching staff is solid.
It is "getting late early", as Yogi once said, but still, it is early. The Mets look good right now but so far they've been playing with a rabbit's foot somewhere. If DeGrom doesn't recover and when Scherzer blows up, we'll see what they're really made of. Again, to quote Yogi, "It ain't over until it's over."

[zambonir]

He's a goner when his contract is up unless they make the playoffs. Dombrowski didn't hire him, and Middleton isn't going to interfere with Dombrowski they way he did with the defanged Klentak and the disinterested MacPhail (i's the best thing about having Dombrowski, really). If Middleton felt otherwise they would have already picked up his option, since managing as a lame duck isn't working out too great either!

And really, the coaching staff is solid? The 3B and bench coach are on their way to a fifth losing season under two different managers. The 1B coach, four. The pitching coach is a huge improvement only because they may have had the worst three-year stretch of pitching coaches in MLB. Long is fine but not actually that different than Dillon (geez, I hope Dillon at least got a watch from Harper for the MVP win). Regardless, you don't have to fire all the coaches when you fire the manager - clearly!

[allentown]

If we aren't going to make the playoffs, by which I mean serious chance of playoffs not simply haven't reached mathematical elimination yet, then I'd trade Segura and Didi and some relievers. I'd try to extend Eflin. If that can't be done, because he wants to test FA or just get away from the dismal Phillies, then I'd trade him as well. I suspect the Phillies won't do this. Over the years they've been allergic to waving the white flag, even when their chances of making post-season have been dismal. I suspect it has to do with ticket sales and fear of bad media coverage.

[zambonir]

Well, it's been a while since the white flag option has been put to the test. They were pretty freaking slow to do anything as the rebuild should have started, but they legitimately have been in contention each of the last four seasons. They shouldn't have changed course and gone for it in 2018, but the standings did say otherwise (first place) whereas they probably didn't try hard enough in 2019 (when they actually held the wild card on July 30 but only added at the margins and fired the hitting coach).

If the worst happens (.450 or worse, 6-10 games out) they won't be able to fool the fans into thinking they're contending. And the fans don't buy tickets to see Segura or Didi.

Right now it's more interesting to ponder whether they would actually unload controllable players in a deadline move (or sooner). Whether to increase the future return or in an attempt to change the direction of this season (Hoskins for a pitcher or a CF, for instance, as I think andyb suggested. But it takes two to tango).

I guess if we had to pick, better to stink in April than September, as in the previous four years.

[allentown]

He's a goner when his contract is up unless they make the playoffs.

Then he's a goner. And, ironically, his seeming panic over that situation is one reason they are unlikely to make the playoffs.

[zambonir]

Not entirely his fault. If he's managing even more poorly because his job is on the line, than Dombrowski greatly misread the situation. Clearly the roster is a bigger issue than his (admittedly not-great) ability to manage that roster. But it's already obvious he's not anything special as a manager and if Dombrowski thought he was he would have picked up the option. The guy is a former manager of the year with a World Series ring, after all! Dombrowski said Girardi had to earn his extension which is all well and good, but what if he actually would have been more effective with the option picked up? It's still only money.

As I think I said elsewhere it probably takes even more than just making the playoffs. But not making the playoffs means he's 100% gone, and probably with an interim manager if they're playing out the string badly.

[LoneStarPhan]

Things have not been going well so far this season. It is always difficult to tell if the manager is a cause or not, but if things continue as they have so far this season, then something has to change. Changing managers is always a consideration.