GDT 5/20/19 Philadelphia Phillies (Arrieta) @ Chicago Cubs (Darvish)

[andyb]

I think Seranthony is a different pitcher now than when he came up. He was fresh when he came up and touching 100. Whether the workload is the reason he is a couple of mph less now is probably an unanswerable question, but there is a logic to a fresh pitcher getting used heavily and then being less effective.

Not sure last year told us there was any permanent physical damage, but it definitely hinted that he could not handle the workload long term. I think it is possible he'll get the lost velocity back, but it is probably more important for him to refine his slider to have a little more break in it. And to throw strikes more consistently. Last night he lost the strike zone in his second inning. It was not the worst decision for Kapler to send him out for inning number 2, but maybe he should have pulled him after the first walk.

[LoneStarPhan]

We never know what would have happened if something had been done differently but we can't help speculating especially when what was done didn't work well.

It looked to me like Herrera could have caught the ball that went for the triple and ended up with the Cubs scoring 3 runs on the play. He cut across behind McCutchen, who was crashing in on the ball, just missing it with his out stretched glove. I think if McCutchen was not near the ball, Herrera makes that catch.

But of course, we can never know that for sure.

[el-pietro]

Thanks for that. Seems like he probably should have a short leash if he is sent back out but he has been pretty good overall in two inning appearances.

I recall some discussion around his issues with back to back appearances in the latter portion of last season. I don't have the numbers on that but I remember that being a bigger issue than two inning outings. I'll see if I can find the data or an article on that tomorrow.

[el-pietro]

Of course, that is a perfectly reasonable position to take. It might have even been worse if he had taken Seranthony out, or more likely the next reliever up might have performed better, but its a big jump from that to incompetence and thats what I took offence to. It feels like the poster who called Kapler incompetent has a specific issue with him, as do many Phillies fans but I don't usually see that kind of comment here and I have always considered this as a place for more reasoned discussion than the likes you get on twitter, facebook or WIP.

Interestingly the discussion from Cubs fans online has been about McCutchens check swing earlier in the game, I think maybe the 6th inning?

[Patchmk88]

Listen man. I appreciate your thought and have always enjoyed reading your comments. However, to imply that I’m some idiot you see on Facebook, WIP, or twitter is taking it a little too far. You are welcome to disagree with me as I am to disagree with you. I do not like Gabe’s feel for how he uses his pitchers. I also have complimented him on his lineup placements as I did in today’s game thread.

Instead of calling me some poster you are welcome to carry on a constructive argument and respond to me. I put out why I thought he was incompetent last night and I stand by that. Some on here may agree and some may disagree, but let not act like this is some prestigious community where someone can’t call out deficiencies they believe in. Not cool man. Not cool at all.

[el-pietro]

I replied to you directly previously and explained exactly what my issue with your comments was. I haven't shied away from that. I take no issue in calling out things you think are wrong, I took issue with you calling Gabe incompetent. Based on the evidence that can't possibly be true unless more than 2/3rds of the managers in the league are also incompetent. You then doubled down on your use of the word incompetent. I think I have been nothing but contsttructive, I haven't attacked you, I have called out my issue with what you have said, and likened it to discussion I have seen elsewhere. What else is there for me to say to you on this topic at this point?

Calling him incompetent (on top of your other comments in this thread which were all anti Kapler) is exactly the sort of thing I see on other social media sites and rarely if ever see here. It seems knee jerk and over the top, rather than the usual reasoned discussion here.

Incompetent:
not having or showing the necessary skills to do something successfully.
"a forgetful and utterly incompetent assistant"

He has the 8th best bullpen in the majors and third best in the NL by at least one measure. By definition he can't possibly be incompetent.

[mdougherty12]

Thanks for that. Seems like he probably should have a short leash if he is sent back out but he has been pretty good overall in two inning appearances.

I recall some discussion around his issues with back to back appearances in the latter portion of last season. I don't have the numbers on that but I remember that being a bigger issue than two inning outings. I'll see if I can find the data or an article on that tomorrow.

Dominguez 2018 numbers:

0 days rest - 58 PA, .720 OPS allowed, 6.00 ERA, 1.750 WHIP
1 day rest - 60 PA, .382 OPS allowed, 1.08 ERA, 0.540 WHIP
2 days rest - 44 PA, .407 OPS allowed, 2.31 ERA, 0.686 WHIP
3 days rest - 36 PA, .556 OPS allowed, 4.15 ERA, 1.154 WHIP

I've left out the numbers for 4+ days rest due to being on a phone.

[Patchmk88]

Saying “that other poster” instead of just looking up my name when you could have said my username is either lazy or passive aggressive. Also acting like this community is a prestigious place that doesn’t have differing opinions that don’t fit to what you believe in and only belongs on social media is not constructive, it is taking an in constructive dig at a fellow poster. I enjoy this Phillies community more than others because of the insight of the great posters on here and the fact that different opinions are allowed without name calling. Not saying you were name calling but I’just wish there was a little less disrespect because you don’t agree with how I feel Gabe handled the 8th inning.

Of course my response was knee jerk. That is what being a fan is all about. You live with the lows and the highs as a fan that’s what makes it fun. I get passionate on a game to game basis because I love the Phillies and I love baseball.

I should have said that his decision not to take out Seranthony and not having anyone warm to do so after 2 bad walks was incompetent not Gabe himself.

Bullpen stats and how someone manages a bullpen does not always correlate. I believe we have a ton of talent in our bullpen. Is it proven talent, no but this season most are at a point where they have had enough experience to reach a good point in their development. We also have very good depth and can deal with injuries better than most. Our bullpen was thought by many to be a strength this season so it shouldn’t surprise people that it has performed well.

I worry about the unnecessary overuse of arms in a game sometimes and the handling of a young reliever like Seranthony last night who needs to build confidence.

As I have said Gabe has established a great clubhouse culture so far this season and has been pretty good with the lineups he’s ordered and put out there. I am just not thrilled with the pitching management, especially in one inning last night.

[schillingfan]

I don’t think Gabe’s pitching management is much different than other managers in the league. Fans of all times gripe about pitching moves. We can never know what would have happened with a different move. Baseball is a game of what ifs. To me in game management matters less than clubhouse management to me. I think there’s no such thing as a really great game manager other than luck. They either go by feel and matchups and you could toss 50 heads in a row, so not sure matchups matter.

[Patchmk88]

I agree. Managing the mood of the players and creating a good culture is key. I think Gabe has done a good job at that. Actually think he learned some things from last year in that regard

[julio]

Also acting like this community is a prestigious place...

I'm curious as to why you argue that this community is not prestigious - or why you seem to think that a "prestigious" community wouldn't have members with differing opinions.

[Patchmk88]

I just explained how much I liked the community, but see no reason to look down on others.

[julio]

I just explained how much I liked the community, but see no reason to look down on others.

Ah... We seem to have differing views of what the word "prestigious" means, or implies.

[LoneStarPhan]

I think Kapler is doing the same things all the managers are doing these days. I know I have a long history of second guessing managers going back to Eddie Sawyer. Mayo Smith comes to mind as one I often criticized. I even second guessed Charlie, who I hold in the highest esteem. So I course I am going to post negative remarks about Gabe from time to time. Usually, my fury dissipates quickly.

[zambonir]

Well yeah - what you guys post in a game thread is basically like yelling at the TV (or, sure calling into WIP). the emotional tenor is different than when in a discussion thread (or when the thread turns into a real discussion).

It would be a lot easier for Gabe if he went old school. Then we could still call him an idiot for his bullpen management but he could just be like Charlie or Mackanin and say, "well, he always has the 7th."