Gabe Kapler Has Been Fired

[xogfog]

Just announced, Gabe Kapler has been fired. I think this was the right move, I just hope that the Klentak regime doesn't make the choice for his replacement.

[Dirk41]

Means absolutely nothing if Klentak and McPhail hang around. Talk about getting hung out to dry

[xogfog]

Not necessarily, if they get a seasoned manager with gravitas that has the hammer and doesn't let the front office dictate how the team is deployed, say someone like Girardi, it would be a vast improvement.

[Dirk41]

The team already deployed the next manager's coaching staff. Whoever is next will likely have to be OK with exactly that

[Taudawg]

Most of the coaches under contract are fairly insignificant parts. The new manager will choose the hitting and pitching coaches. Of note - Rob Thompson (bench coach) has a long history with Joe Girardi and Bobby Dickerson (infield coach) with Buck Showalter.

[bigegypt0417]

The team already deployed the next manager's coaching staff. Whoever is next will likely have to be OK with exactly that

That seems like quite the leap.

I'm sure the phillies know what they're looking for.

[el-pietro]

Scapegoat, if this is the only change they make then we won't be winning 90+ games anytime soon.

[bkeich]

Very odd to retain all of the coaches like this, makes me fear that the next manager will be yet another first time manager (was our last experienced manager actually Charlie Manuel?).

Normally a name manager would want to name his own staff, but since it took weeks (months really) to make this decision I guess we will end up with whoever is left after everyone else hires someone.

The dysfunction this demonstrates is difficult to watch. I don’t think Kapler was going to succeed, but if I was a quality manager I would be very worried about an organization that has this much trouble making a decision and publically demonstrates that the owner is doing this much of other people’s jobs.

Klentak better start working on his resume, he is gone after this season.

MacPhail appears to have retired in place.

[EDmuch]

MY feelings on Kapler have been fairly neutral. My focus has been the ineptitude of Klentak and apparently Middleton has chosen to preserve that ineptitude. I am prepared to be shocked if the Phils hire a "name" manager such as Showalter or Girardi. I suspect that it will be another figurehead type of manger who will be stuck with implementing the Ivy League Data Geek's vision of baseball.

[JoefromPocono]

Is Art Howe available? He worked pretty well with Billy Beane...lol

[schillingfan]

Are the Dodgers going to fire Roberts? Is there coincidence to this timing?

[andyb]

Not really in love with the process. I am guessing they know who they want to replace Kapler but need to go through interviews to show their due diligence. I am not sure a veteran manager would want the job with so little control of the coaching staff unless they have already been identified.

Kapler was not a great manager but probably was not an awful one either. His big strike is that the team faded two seasons in a row. His GM did not help much at the trade deadline of course, but players generally did not improve under Kapler and might have been playing less hard towards the end of the year.

Kapler is the scapegoat though. Klentak has had a very uneven 4 years on the job. He has done good things and bad things and the team not being good enough is more on his shoulders than Kapler. The manager always gets fired first though. Hopefully Klentak has learned from his mistakes. He at least acknowledged one with Santana even if he was unable to fix it.

[bigegypt0417]

Not really in love with the process. I am guessing they know who they want to replace Kapler but need to go through interviews to show their due diligence. I am not sure a veteran manager would want the job with so little control of the coaching staff unless they have already been identified.

Can I ask...is there some rule somewhere that if the manager would rather go in his own direction with the retained coaches, they would say no?

The new manager gets to pick their own hitting and pitching coaches as well.

Do you think the phillies will say no to the manager of their choice if he wants to change more coaches?

[Taudawg]

The coaches after the manager, hitting and pitching coach really don't make a lot of $$$ (in grand scheme). If the new manager wants new coaches, I doubt the FO is going to get in the way. Especially if they have a particular manager in mind.

While he would seem to be a big departure from Kapler's style, Showalter might be their guy. He has ties to MacPhail and Klentak from Baltimore.

[Lawman]

While he would seem to be a big departure from Kapler's style, Showalter might be their guy. He has ties to MacPhail and Klentak from Baltimore.

Because, you know, the Orioles have bee the model organization we want the Phillies to follow.

[allentown]

Do you think the phillies will say no to the manager of their choice if he wants to change more coaches?

No, I don't. I think the bigger hang-up on hiring anyone good is going to be a requirement for the way in which the Phillies conduct their MLB baseball-side business. Kapler and the fired pitching coach were guys required to be and basically hired to be robots doing whatever the analytical department said was the correct thing to do. Eflin's main (to me) complaint was that this made his pitch calls way too predictable. The current Phillies seem to have come up short on both a seasoned approach to analytics and to a personalization of the approach. Presumably our analytics department is composed of bright young guys who will improve with experience, but the last two seasons they seem to have been a net negative. Their tilt toward drafting college guys high and seeking tangible skills (not just athleticism or BP power) does seem to have improved the recent drafts.

[andyb]

Can I ask...is there some rule somewhere that if the manager would rather go in his own direction with the retained coaches, they would say no?

The reality is that many veteran managers with leverage to get more than one job would say "No". Through most of baseball history managers have picked most of their coaching staff. It is a new think where GMs dictate the staff from the top.

In an ideal world a manager has input on the entire coaching staff. It does not have to be created completely independently of the front office, but the manager needs input.

Can I ask...do you think the hitting and pitching coaches did a good job on this year's team?

[zambonir]

I guess you could argue that it was mighty generous of the Phillies to exercise all the coach's contract options, since they were in limbo for two weeks. They will be be free to pursue other jobs and the Phillies will also be free to replace them if the new manager wants, would probably just cost them the price of a Phil Gosselin (at most) if they ditch a couple of guys.

But there's not much to like about this, IMO. At best, Klentak gets it right the second time, or a veteran manager is forced on him but they are able to find a good mix and collaboration and both Klentak and the new manager are here for the next four years (manager, if it's anyone of note, will get a three-year deal and if the team is in the playoffs the next two seasons Klentak will get an extension). But if next season isn't much better we'll be doing this all over again, maybe more than once (if the new GM ultimately wants to hire his own manager).

Showalter would be the big stick, really. He wouldn't just want more say on the field, he'd want more say on the roster. But the reality is, the collaborative nature of the GM/manager relationship, including the selection of coaches, isn't going to change, and that's not just a Phillies thing at this point. Maddon didn't get to hire all his own guys in Chicago either (one of them being Mallee, so....)

The nine rehired coaches are all mentioned by name in the official press release.

[Lawman]

This is appearing like a dumpster fire.

[zambonir]

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