Eagles 2020-2021 Season

[zambonir]

I don't think this is as dramatic as people think it is. Despite the punitive cap hit, the Eagles probably want to move him as much as he wants to be moved. The damage is already done. There's literally no way to fix it. No matter what you do - "make" him be a better teammate, give in and announce he's the starter, give in and announce he's the starter and trade Hurts on top of that, pay him all that $ to be a back-up - it's bad for the team. Giving in to his demands may have the worst cap implications but that doesn't mean it's the worst thing for the franchise, short or long-term.

And I wouldn't say "nobody was more reponsible" than Wentz himself. Pretty much a fully equal failure between the front office, the coaching staff and the player, every step of the way.

Sure, maybe they can play chicken with him a little bit, or work it out. The original report said he wanted a trade if he was going to be the back-up. But they could still at least say it is his job to lose in camp. Fresh start, blah blah. But even in that scenario there's only three ways it ends

• Wentz goes back to being an elite QB, which probably won't happen on this team

• Wentz gets injured, as he has in every single one of his professional season besides this one. Which is why they're still not trading Hurts.

• Whichever one of them is the back-up gets traded in-season for even less of a return than they'd get in the off-season.

And yeah - it's so much money. Foles restructured his deal to stay with the Eagles and then did it again with his Jags deal to go to the Bears. There's probably a way.

My guess is the Eagles get past the first deadline to reduce the cap hit, and then start thinking about what else they need to do at QB (journeyman vet and/or draft pick) while making the trade.

[andyb]

Wentz is mentioned as one of a half dozen low cost options down here in DC, though it really would make zero sense to trade more than something like a 5th round pick for him, if that, since there will be other similar damaged bargains on the free agent market. The WFT really has no QB at all for next year. The injured Kyle Allen is a backup. Alex Smith just does not have the mobility to protect himself to play long term. They either need a high pick (which if they win tonight they probably will miss out on the top 4 or 5 QBs in the draft) or a trade/free agent.

[zambonir]

I never get tired of reading "WFT" as "WTF."

[phillychuck]

Wentz has to bring back a lot more than a 4th or 5th rounder for me to even remotely consider trading him. There should be multiple suitors; football coaches (and coaches in general) are pretty confident about their ability to fix broken players from other organizations. I'm expecting at least 2 draft picks, a 2 and a 3 or a 2 and a 4.

I hope I'm not off-base--we need the draft capital if we are rebuilding.

[LegoDoom]

With his contract I would be worried if the Eagles need to send a draft pick to move Wentz. I would normally agree with you pc, but it does the Eagles no good to keep Wentz and Hurts on the roster. For both cap and team reasons.

[zambonir]

Certainly if Wentz can't get you any return at all - or you have to include a sweetener - you're stuck with him, and since the Eagles aren't winning a Super Bowl next season anyway, what's it matter if the dysfunction costs a few wins.

But I think there's a deal to be made. And it just doesn't make sense to run back every element - GM, head coach, QB - of this team. Someone's gotta go and it looks like Lurie has already made his choice. Unless Doug still feels like Carson's his guy, and maybe he does.

[LegoDoom]

Certainly if Wentz can't get you any return at all - or you have to include a sweetener - you're stuck with him, and since the Eagles aren't winning a Super Bowl next season anyway, what's it matter if the dysfunction costs a few wins.

I think the obvious answer is cap space. There is an incentive to trade Wentz. If you don't think he's the long term answer at QB, then cap flexibility is worth something.

[andyb]

With Wentz' contract the most likely scenario is that they release him unless he would be willing to re-do the contract to ease the cap hit. He just has no trade value because any team can just sign a free agent for similar cap and monetary hits. The low round pick I suggested is only if another team like the WFT really wanted him and they actually do have the cap room to take him.

Most likely he just gets released. It is kind of how NFL contracts work. It is just tough to trade anyone on a big deal. The way they deal with dead money even makes it hard to do big contract swaps like the NBA lets teams do.

[zambonir]

But they are only going to save like $1 million in cap space for 2021, that's the main argument for not trading him right away. Then it's risk/reward - if he gets hurt or is just sitting on the bench, he could become even less tradeable.

Releasing him is basically the same thing as tanking 2021, since he'd take up almost 60 million of space. But then it would be over. Honestly it does seem like the best option, since the others still don't (IMO) get the Eagles back to 9-10 wins in the next two years.

[zambonir]

Well, now that Mortensen has published a story (the BGN post was based on stuff he said on TV) specifically saying the issue is between Pederson and Wentz, I'd say the Eagles already made their choice (though I also find it hard to blame Doug entirely, he didn't seem to want Hurts in the first place).

Mort also says multiple teams are expected to be interested, and Howie and Wentz's agents are already talking.

Sources: Wentz-Pederson relationship fractured

[allentown]

Yes, your statement on cap space is the correct one, which is why I don't cut him. The problem with cutting him and just taking the hit in 2021 is that you can't just do that. The cap is a real one and they will need to wave goodbye to other players they prefer/need to keep, in order to get below the new cap. Admittedly, the Eagles are in an awful situation with very low percentage of a satisfactory outcome. The only satisfactory outcome is to rehabilitate Wentz and raise his value -- either to us or to another team. Than is a low, but far from non-zero, probability.. If 2021 is lost, which it is regardless of what they do, then focus on the offense and giving the QB the optimum chance to succeed. The offense gets all the primo draft picks and FA signings. The D gets by as it can. Give Wentz a chance to be the starter. Even make him the presumptive starter going into the competition in training camp. I think Hurts has a future. I also think he isn't ready and would benefit by a year as backup.

I am not that worried that Wentz loses value between now and the 2021 trade deadline, because everything I read say the Eagles will be lucky to get a 3rd rounder for him if they trade him in the off-season. I'm willing to gamble we can do better.

I'd like to rewatch the first Washington game to see what happened between first and second half and get a sense of the hits Wentz sustained. His collapse has been so incredible, after a good start to that game, that I have to suspect something physical is involved. Anyone know where I can find that first Washington game?

I also don't worry about Wentz being locker room poison. There has been a fair amount written about him being a bad teammate, barely coachable, not being willing to run the plays called, putting the 'Foles plays' off limits, that I don't think he needs much reminding that he has the choice of poisoning his reputation and value, which hurts him a lot more than it hurts the Eagles, or working to rehabilitate his skills and reputation, which benefits him as much as it does the Eagles. If, by stubbornness, he is a poison, well 2021 wasn't going to be a plus year anyway.

[allentown]

Mort also says multiple teams are expected to be interested, and Howie and Wentz's agents are already talkin

No it doesn't say that at all. It says his agent is willing to work with Roseman to get Wentz gone, it does not say they have talked. It also says the Eagles plan to keep Wentz and will only trade him for a substantial return. I don't see this as Pederson's fault at all. As you say, Pederson didn't want Hurts and undoubtedly would have preferred another top offensive draftee with the 2nd round pick. Yes, Pederson benched Wentz, but Wentz gave him no choice. The offensive line stank, but Wentz was way more skittish behind it than Hurts has been. Yes, Pederson simplified the offense, and presumably Wentz was unhappy, reportedly refusing to run the 'Foles plays', but... it was obvious to one and all that Wentz's escapability skills have diminished, that he needed to get rid of the ball much faster than he did, and that extending plays didn't work as in the past, because his receivers lacked the ability to get open. That was just Wentz being stubborn. His accuracy was awful. His ball protection was awful. He needed to align what he wanted/was willing to do with what his supporting cast was able to do. He didn't. And he seemed to panic. A lot of fixing to do, but a strengthened O-line and a better receiving corps would go a long way.

[zambonir]

Ah I conflated that with the Lurie/Pederson meeting.

Regardless, and despite the Eagles saying they want a high return, which is just how you start negotiations, I think it is toothpaste out of the tube at this point. If I had to bet on it - and perhaps I can - Wentz isn't an Eagle by May 1 (by mid-March).

The COVID-reduced cap will make next year even tougher for the Eagles to do anything - but at least a team with a not-yet-ready Hurts, or, who knows, Andy Dalton, will secure the necessary draft position.

[bkeich]

Wow, talk about a player falling off a cliff, can we cut Ertz at halftime. He caused an interception (Hurts should not have thrown it, but it was obviously a slant and Ertz didn’t seem to know that) dropped the only other pass thrown his way and generally is missing from the game.

Nice to see JJAW make a play. Next time they threw the ball to him he fell down while open and almost screwed himself into the turf. Yep, that is more normal.

It is a shame listening to Chris Mortenson. He used to know things, but hanging around Chris Collingsworth has clearly caused brain drain. He has said almost as many stupid things as Collingsworth in this game (not as many as Aikman of course)

[bkeich]

I really though Cameron Johnston had a shot at the Pro Bowl after 12 games. He has been in a serious slump for a month. He dropped from 2nd in net yards to 7th and apparently is trying to drop out of the top 10 today.

I wonder if he is hurt or did the block get in his head. Weird

[zambonir]

It's pretty wild to watch a team actually tank when there are direct playoff implications. And scratching Carson only seems to highlight the fact that he will never take another snap for Pederson. They are protecting a trade asset, whereas if you wanted the guy in camp trying to win back his job, why not let him play a quarter?

[bigegypt0417]

The national and even local media are killing the eagles for throwing the game the way they did...that was too obvious.

[bkeich]

It is going to take all of Roseman’s Salary Cap skills just to get us where we can draft. I honestly don’t think there is any way to find another $30M+ in room to trade Wentz. We will see, but to trade Wentz they need to clear $60M in cap room instead of the $30M that they do now. I don’t think it is possible.

Any thought that Wentz is going to write the Eagles a $20M check is insane. Among the problems with that are that the Union Mamagement would have collective strokes, Wentz would win the “dumbest move in the 21st Century” move and frankly I don’t think the League would allow it due to the obvious court cases it would cause.

[zambonir]

Doug's playing it straight - coaching to win, wanted to give Sudfeld a chance and was his decision solely. And has a professional relationship with Carson.

The funny thing is the 4th and 4 call was playing to win - if it had worked.

[zambonir]

The NFL union isn't that strong. All they care about is the total salary cap, which is why contracts are restructured easily all the time (if more for cap reasons while staying than for trades). Look no further than Nick Foles, who cut his contract from $57 to $24 million for Chicago.

It won't be easy, since Wentz's' contract hasn't even started yet, and the other team will have to pony up some $ too. But it's hardly impossible. He won't actually lose that much money in the long run because this contract is likely to be voided after two seasons anyway.

Since the Eagles are out of luck whether they keep him (as back-up), waive him or trade him, trading him remains the least pain.