Coronavirus (Sports-Related and General)

[jimbomill]

Never said anything about not wearing a mark. I am saying something about the efficacy. The other thought I muse about is fluid flow through a pipe.
If no mask is large diameter "pipe" and a mask is reduced diameter, do the droplets adhere to that flow rate change, Bernoulli equation et cetera?

[LegoDoom]

But the key point is that masks worn by those who are contagious - whether they's symptomatic or not - reduce the risk of infecting others.

Agreed. I do feel that N95 masks do a decent job at stopping infection for the person wearing them (not perfect, obviously). I wear a mask with a filter insert when I go to an indoor setting (which is only really the grocery store right now). Not ideal, but the inserts do provide much better protection (in both directions) than just a cloth mask. I will be flying with an N95 even though planes do a good job of filtering the air. However, I am not taking any chances on a 5 hour flight.

So, if you're certain that you are not contagious - for instance, if you have been isolated from all exposure for 14 days or more - you can skip the mask and not technically risk exposing somebody else. Even then, your lack of a mask will suggest to others that you don't care about their health, and will encourage others - who may be contagious - to skip the mask.

Masks do provide you with an extra layer of protection when near people, especially so if you are in a confined space. There are plenty of studies that show the amount of droplets that are emitted from a person talking, coughing, sneezing. Yes, the coughing person wearing the mask is ideal in this scenario, but studies have shown that wearing a mask near a person coughing (without a mask) does provide good protection.

In sum, choosing to not wear a mask is just simply selfish. Yeah, they're inconvenient. My glasses tend to fog up. But the mask makes a difference.

So, if you don't wear a mask, lots of people will make certain assumptions about you: 1) You don't care about their health; 2) you're selfish; 3) you're probably a libertarian or a "conservative" - which in America today tends to mean you're basically selfish.

I didn't want to say selfish, maybe just uninformed. If you don't believe a mask helps, I disagree, but that's fine. However, not wearing one disregards the feelings of a lot of people. It also extends the lockdowns. If people will go out with masks, but don't want to be around unmasked people, then they won't go out as much.

I'm glad it's summer as there are outdoor options for eating, shopping, exercising, etc. It's going to be brutal when the weather turns cold again. I guess it's a good time to look into relocating.

[LegoDoom]

I think you are missing the point with regards to the virus size. The virus needs to attach to something. So while the virus is smaller than the N95 filtration size, what it's attached to is most likely not.

[Lawman]

You can't simulaneously refuse to have a lockdown and refuse to wear a mask at Costco

I really don't understand why people are so upset about wearing masks. If masks are uncomfortable wear a scarf or bandanna or something. I mean, it's for what, one hour at the most? Even if you think it doesn't do anything, it makes other people comfortable and hey, is it really worth the fight?

[julio]

If you don't believe a mask helps, I disagree, but that's fine.

I disagree with this statement. It's not "fine" to disbelieve something that is demonstrably true. It's not "fine" to deny reality. It's dangerous.

"Belief" is what one has (or does not have) when there isn't enough data/evidence to know. But allowing "belief" to substitute for, or outright deny knowledge when we do have the evidence... that's foolish and often dangerous. Frankly, I don't care much if somebody wants to "believe" the earth is flat; but when their "belief" results in behaviors that threaten harm to others... that's a non-starter.

Believing the earth is flat is basically harmless. Believing climate change, and the coronavirus, and God knows what all else, are "deep state hoaxes" is not harmless. It threatens my well-being and that of millions (billions) of others. I will not agree that "it's a person's right" to threaten all of us because it makes that person more comfortable.

[LegoDoom]

If someone wants to go outside without a mask, then that's fine with me even though I disagree with it. I see people biking/running on open roads with masks on, which is probably unnecessary. Just don't get near me or complain if you can't enter a store as that directly endangers people. In that it seems we agree.

There are lots of people that will believe what they want to no matter how much information you give them.

And while I agree with pretty much everything you said, the lockdowns are most likely unconstitutional... even if they are the right thing to do. If you want to talk about people's rights during this pandemic, then it is very much open to interpretation.

[Lawman]

If someone wants to go outside without a mask, then that's fine with me even though I disagree with it. I see people biking/running on open roads with masks on, which is probably unnecessary. Just don't get near me or complain if you can't enter a store as that directly endangers people. In that it seems we agree.

There are lots of people that will believe what they want to no matter how much information you give them.

And while I agree with pretty much everything you said, the lockdowns are most likely unconstitutional... even if they are the right thing to do. If you want to talk about people's rights during this pandemic, then it is very much open to interpretation.

A few thoughts. I go outside w/o masks on all the time. But, when going to a park where it may be crowded, I bring it with me and will put it on if I see that I can't social distance and/or if most other people are wearing one. I may not start out wearing it, but it's there if needed.

And, I think lockdowns are constitutional. Where I think the problems come in is when you begin picking and choosing. Protests are ok but playgrounds are not? Outdoor gathering for protest are uncapped w/r/t numbers but religious gatherings are capped?

Following fierce condemnation, the mayor received for repeatedly singling out Jewish communities on social media for not abiding the shutdown guidelines, reporter Reuvain Borchardt from the Jewish newspaper Hamodia pressed de Blasio on his stance of the lockdown as thousands have taken to the streets, some even rioting and looting across the city.

"The retail store owners have been closed for two months... People from attending houses of worship, our regular part of life, have been banned from doing so with more than 10 people. Now you've expressed solidarity with this particular protest cause, is that why it's been given dispensation to disregard epidemic guidelines?" Borchardt asked. "Are we in a pandemic or not? And do we have one set of rules for protesters and another for everyone else?"

"Thank you, you're a smart guy asking a smart question, but I'm going to tell you that anyone who thinks there's different rules for different people, again, is not trying very hard to see the reality," de Blasio responded. "We're in the middle of a national crisis, a deep-seated national crisis. There is no comparison. I'm sorry, I do feel for the store owners. I really do."

After explaining the phase rollout of New York City's reopening, he continued, "When you see a nation, an entire nation simultaneously grappling with an extraordinary crisis seeded in 400 years of American racism, I'm sorry, that is not the same question as the understandably aggrieved store owner or the devout religious person who wants to go back to services. This is something that's not about which side of the spectrum you're on. It's about a deep, deep American crisis... Sorry guys, there's a world outside New York City. So we're dealing with this."

[bkeich]

And, I think lockdowns are constitutional. Where I think the problems come in is when you begin picking and choosing. Protests are ok but playgrounds are not? Outdoor gathering for protest are uncapped w/r/t numbers but religious gatherings are capped?

The simple fact is that we have made concessions to "need". Grocery Stores have been open the entire time, and trust me while some people do attempt to socially distance, many do not. And it isnt an age thing, I have had all ages, all races, genders, etc. come right up to me and stand way, way too close. Everyone makes mistakes, but the simple fact is that our world is not setup for 6 foot distancing, almost no hallways or aisles are wide enough to accommodate that and it would be prohibitively expensive and wasteful to try and make it work. We can try and make things "one way", but who is going to walk all the way around an aisle and back down again when you forgot something 5 feet behind you that now has someone standing at?

Is a shutdown constitutional? I would think so, but it probably needs some type of "emergency" declaration to go with it. Not actually sure states or Federal Government did that, but since it was left in the states hands (despite some talk from Trump he actually did not shutdown any areas other than Federal Government installations). So did your state declare an emergency? Did they give the governor the power to close things? Probably not, but honestly it is just paperwork.

I cannot see a 2nd shutdown even slightly working, the simple fact is that more people are going to get sick. The point of the shutdown as I saw it was to stop it from being society-destroying, and it did that, but it was never really going to not allow for the virus to continue to spread, just not a plague.

Opening things back up will cause increases in infection rates, it is unavoidable. If you think the person near you should have a mask on then get away from them, if you believe that it is foolish of them (it is, clearly) then eventually they will of course get theirs. I am too old and too tired to fight with someone over something as stupid as wearing a mask, I dont like it either, when it bugs me I step outside and breath easier again or I cut my trip short. It isnt difficult, I am not going to try and tell someone who is obviously too arrogant and stupid that they are arrogant and stupid (this does not apply to people parking in handicap spaces, I will say whatever comes to mind to them every time I see it until the day I die, and if I wouldnt be punished I would destroy their car).

[Lawman]

Agreed.

[zambonir]

[kikutaro]

I think that's a misleading graphic. Masks can be anything from an N95 mask to a handkerchief. It seems unlikely that the graphic remains the same for all masks. I also think that whether you are indoors or outdoors will make a huge difference. It would be interesting if somebody could figure out what the graphic would be for cloth masks outdoors.

[zambonir]

Well, the image suggest a proper surgical mask, so yeah, not many people are wearing those. And not all masks work great or fit properly. But the research still suggests even cotton masks help. Most of my masks have two layers of fabric and some let you insert a paper filter. I often wear a bandana too when I enter a business (yesterday I picked up a pizza).

Like the Atlantic article that's already been posted here says:

Models show that if 80 percent of people wear masks that are 60 percent effective, easily achievable with cloth, we can get to an effective R0 of less than one. T

There's not going to be any definitive science on this because it's too soon, and nobody's doing double-blind studies (let alone with people who are infected). But it's better if everyone wears a mask than not, and wearing one is no more of a burden than requiring people to wear shoes.

[bkox]

Republican congressman who just announced he has coronavirus refused to wear a...

[julio]

wearing one is no more of a burden than requiring people to wear shoes

This is what just kills me. People freak out about being required to wear masks to enter businesses - but nobody sees, "No shirt, no shoes - no service." as an "infringement on their freedom."

This strongly suggests that the objections aren't really about "freedom." They're about partisanship, about ideology. They're not rational - or else these people would be demanding the freedom to go into a restaurant without a shirt or shoes...because there's far less hygenic rationale for requiring shoes than for requiring masks. Doh.

[bkox]

This strongly suggests that the objections aren't really about "freedom." They're about partisanship, about ideology

If obama had come out early on and said face masks are dumb.. every single republican would have their entire face wrapped like a mummy

[Lawman]

and wearing one is no more of a burden than requiring people to wear shoes.

And just as stylish too.

[bkox]

Dallas Cowboys star running back Ezekiel Elliott tests positive for COVID-19 and...

[LoneStarPhan]

As if the six feet rule is perfect and I bet he violated it many times each day he was in the Capitol building.

On the issue of who stays open and who was not allowed to open during our shutdown, big business was definitely favored over the small business. Since grocery stores were open, big stores like the WalMart supercenter near us was open and you could buy anything they have in the store. Small specialty shops not selling groceries but items being sold at WalMart were forced to close. WalMart, Target, Home Depot, Dollar Stores, Costco, etc. all were open the entire time of the shut down.

[bkox]

Asymptomatic transmission of coronavirus appears to be worse than SARS or...

“A runner who doesn’t yet know he’s sick running in front of you is likely to infect you with the slipstream behind him by around 30 feet,” Poland said. “At six feet, the largest respiratory droplets have settled out onto the ground.”

[bkox]

On the issue of who stays open and who was not allowed to open during our shutdown, big business was definitely favored over the small business. Since grocery stores were open, big stores like the WalMart supercenter near us was open and you could buy anything they have in the store. Small specialty shops not selling groceries but items being sold at WalMart were forced to close. WalMart, Target, Home Depot, Dollar Stores, Costco, etc. all were open the entire time of the shut down.

I agree small business got the shaft but not sure how to fix that. Many small businesses might not have had the resources to ensure only a set number of ppl in the store at a time. And even if they did, alot of people wont wait in line when they can just go to a big store.

Some states though did require walmart and others to tape off non essential parts of their stores. I remember an article with an upset mother who was trying to get a toy for her child's birthday but the toy dept was inaccessible