Coronavirus (Sports-Related and General)

allentown 2020-06-12 20:31:16 UTC #1225

Covid is already a VERY bad flu season and it's not over. A flu season on merely the severe edge of normal does not leave 115,000 dead Americans. We are still adding 800 new dead per day. If that rate continues through the end of the year, just holding steady, not a pronounced second wave, we'll hit 200,000 dead in the calendar year. That's with all the social distancing and closures that we've done. It's been VERY serious and it could have been so much worse. At least in PA, we've come through the worst of the storm and it certainly is time to reopen the economy, but it is not a time to be stupid about it and defiantly go about not wearing masks or not observing social distancing. I am shocked that in states, like WI, where the court ordered a reopening, the initial impulse of so many was to crowd into bars unmasked, with literally not a foot of separation, let alone 6. That is truly scary, and if that is what some people mean (and they obviously do) about reopening, then there is a large suicidal component to that thinking.

President Trump didn't create the virus, but his actions have certainly increased the number of deaths.

So many deaths have been in nursing homes, other personal care facilities, and prisons. We are going to have to rethink how all of these operate in future. Covid-19 is a nasty virus, but it's not the worst that could have hit us. We better learn from what we've experienced -- first in dealing with an almost inevitable second wave by the end of this Fall, but also for the next nasty new virus.

Covid is NOT equivalent to flu, over the past decade or so, when annual deaths are roughly 10K-60K a year. We've just about doubled the high end (61K) of that range. Two things to remember in comparing deaths 1) flu deaths in the final tally always exceed what was counted along the way and 2) Covid deaths continue

andyb 2020-06-12 20:32:59 UTC #1226

New MLB offer. 72 games starting July 14. Supposedly 80%-83% of pro-rated salary with a less onerous playoff contingency.

Players should counter with 78 games at 90% salary. Play one extra week. But put most of playoff risk (like all but $50-$75 million) on the owners. That might actually get it done.

30-man rosters dropping to 28 and 26 every 2 weeks. 60-man total squad including taxi squad. I figured they might increase the taxi squad so there would be enough players to play other teams' taxi squads. 60 does that better than 50. Phillies could let Bohm play a few weeks before deciding to call him up eventually.

xogfog 2020-06-12 20:58:47 UTC #1227

I think the most appealing deal that could be done is 81 games (half a season), players get 85%, agree with your playoff risk assessment.

jimbomill 2020-06-12 21:08:46 UTC #1228

I am of the opinion that each state's Governor shares that blame.

But back on topic, it is scary as we really don't have a vaccine. Reopening will help build immunity, I believe, but for the 2% of us who are in the "bad" percentage of the population, it is a matter of life or death.

flyers19rw 2020-06-13 15:13:24 UTC #1229

CD, things aren't really going in the right direction. You'd like to see the number of cases going down not gradually rising or plateauing in OC. Not enough social distancing (events like the demonstrations down at the pier or crowding at the bars like Nomads) and the lack of masks are not helping.

California_Dreamin 2020-06-13 16:15:09 UTC #1230

With all due respect, this is so much baloney and everyone in OC knows it. In fact, OC just Thursday announced that masks are no longer mandatory and ask yourself this...if things were getting worse, why would they say masks are no longer mandatory. Two things are happening which makes the numbers look worse than they are...people who could not go to the hospital for selective surgeries during the pandemic are now swarming back to places like Hoag and when they get I they are automatically checked for covid and if they are positive [though asymptomatic] they are counted in the numbers and get federal money for it even though people weren't sick and didn't even go to the hospital for this.

The other thing is that Governor Newsome is bringing in people from Mexico who are sick but unable to go to a hospital there and they are counted. Newsome is as draconian as any governor west of Murphy and Wolf and yet he has opened up gyms, swimming pools and summer camps as of this week.

If things were so dire do you honestly believe A] mask wearing would be eliminated as mandatory and B] Newsome would suddenly change colors and make it a free for all after locking us all up for 3 months. Highly unlikely.

I find it more than a bit suspicious that while the protests were going on not a word was spoken in anger about the virus but now that this has settled down and the President is going to do some rallies [which even a Trump hater must admit is no more dangerous than those protests] all of a sudden the sky is falling again.

California_Dreamin 2020-06-13 16:33:54 UTC #1231

flyers19rw...my friend, I in no way want you to think I am dismissing what you wrote, I am only pointing out that numbers are a strange thing [as we baseball fans well know] and can be spun anyway we want to spin them. That's what I believe, and have always believed, is happening. And there are more than a few governors [Newsome is one of them] who should have worried more about taking care of nursing homes than small businesses and the numbers would be different. In fact, amazingly, he is still sending sick patients back into nursery homes [was on the news yesterday].

I understand social distancing, not having large crowds on a regular basis, stay home if you are sick..I get it. But I know this much...the damage done to the millions who were locked down [some STILL locked down] will end up being worse than this virus ever dreamed of being. Suicides are up, depression is massive, drug usage is sky rocketing and crime is through the roof. What we did when we shut down a nation has never been done before and history books will some categorize what we did as the dumbest thing this nation ever did. I understood the 15 days to flatten the curve, the rest was poppycock and foolish and did untold damage to our nation.

julio 2020-06-13 17:13:24 UTC #1232

I just have to comment on this. "Numbers are a strange thing" is a statement of ignorance about statistics. Properly used, statistics cannot be "spun any way we want to spin them." Spinning and confusing with numbers is dependent on the statistical ignorance, if not outright innumeracy, of a target audience.

Sadly, the American population is full of people who are statistically ignorant, if not out right innumerate. Even more sadly, a significant minority (at least) of Americans take pride in their ignorance. The results are predictable (even statistically!).

CD is citing a whole bunch of negative outcomes from the lockdowns...but he's citing NO sources, providing NO data concerning any of these things. Are there reasons for concern? Yes. What is the degree of concern that's warranted? We don't know, based on what CD has provided, because there's no data here. What there is, sadly, is a relatively melodramatic presentation of what sounds a lot like talking points from Fox News. That's not data; even money it's not even "information," with out the "dis" prefix. I mean, I know that CD is not Lou Dobbs, but based on these posts, one might wonder!

allentown 2020-06-13 17:21:32 UTC #1233

Probably more like 10%, but at least 5%. I'm guessing close to 50% of those over 70 are well advised to scrupulously avoid this virus. Virtually everyone over 80 is at serious risk. Most of the deaths (2/3 in my state -- PA, 70+% in a few other states have come from nursing homes -- by definition people ill equipped to protect themselves and mostly suffering from serious health risk factors.

California_Dreamin 2020-06-13 17:49:31 UTC #1234

julio...huh???? Did you not see the numbers I used yesterday, apparently not? Fine, I will update them today and they are even better today. A few weeks ago, world wide, the active case numbers were HIGHER than the RECOVERED numbers, a bad trait. However, two weeks ago the numbers began to change and as of yesterday the recovery numbers [over 4 million] had surpassed the active cases [about 3.5 million] a plus ration of about 500,000. Today, its 4,000,000 recovered and 3,372,000 active, a positive rate of over 600,000.

98% of all cases world wide are considered mild whereas on 2% are considered serious or critical. Also the numbers in our country are clearly getting better, the death totals daily have been under 1000 the entire week and while any death is a tragedy it is a far cry from the over 2,000 daily that was occurring in April and May. You may not think these numbers significant but most people do. Heck, maybe even Lou Dobbs.

Its funny, I was often accused of using straw man arguments [didn't know what they were then but do now!] but you silly comments about Fox News is not only silly but foolish. You know nothing about how I get my info and as I mentioned yesterday, I had a very vested interest in all of this, I was one of the 40 million who suddenly was deemed to be non essential. I found that interesting as the students I escort on historical trips of the USA sure thought my career was essential to them. Given my vested interest in all of this I immersed myself in all things covid and have been a regular visitor of the John Hopkins Worldometer about 5-6 times a day. I probably know as much about Dr. Fauci as his wife does, knows the names of Dr. Birks kids, learned the idiosyncrasies of governors I had never heard of before the virus, and formulated my opinions based on what I believed to be true, not what Don Lemon, Tucker Carlson, Rachel Maddow or Mike Pence said.

So, julio, if you want more numbers please feel free to ask. I know them as well as I do the scores of the Phillies 10 game losing streak in September in 1964....1-0, 9-2, 6-4, 5-3, 7-5, 6-4, 14-8, 5-1, 4-2, 8-5.

zambonir 2020-06-13 18:34:29 UTC #1235

Yes, masks are no longer mandatory in Orange County. Sounds like it was a great process.

Orange County, Calif., residents call virus a hoax, rail against face masks

Residents of California’s Orange County will no longer be required to wear masks in public, local officials announced Thursday, as a debate over face coverings has been underway lately in some parts of the state, with a growing amount of public pushback on mask regulations.

Tensions were high in Orange County earlier in the week. The county’s top health officer abruptly resigned Tuesday after weeks of harsh attacks, and even a death threat, over her mask requirements. Nichole Quick was replaced by Clayton Chau.

On Thursday, Chau peeled back the mask order, telling the Los Angeles Times that the change was not because of public pushback but was to be consistent with recent state guidance. California allows each county to set its own policy on masks.

However, criticism of the mask requirements had come from far and wide over the past few weeks. A video that has been circulating on social media this week showed more than 100 people going to an Orange County Board of Supervisors meeting to speak out against the county’s face-mask regulations.

Residents walked up one by one to the microphone, voicing their displeasure about the regulations that had required them to wear a mask amid the pandemic.

Some complained that the virus was a “hoax,” that they have been discriminated against because they could not go into a store without a mask and that the science behind wearing these masks was incorrect and contradictory to advice from medical experts.

“You are kneeling on the necks of people, and you are continuing to act in a thuggish manner,” one woman said.

Another angrily pronounced: “This is a hoax. This is a fraud. There’s nobody dying in excess of any other year in the last decade. Are you aware of this?”

Orange County had reported 8,153 coronavirus cases and 210 coronavirus-related fatalities as of Friday.

California_Dreamin 2020-06-13 18:36:02 UTC #1236

Here are some more numbers for those that are interested. KOMO radio and television news in Seattle [biggest station there] just issued a report yesterday that less than 1% of all Seattle protesters tested were covid positive. Given that you are only likely to get tested if you fear you have the virus, that probably really puts the number at even less, maybe half a percent. And Seattle has had as many protesters as any city except New York, Washington and Minnesota.

Speaking of Minnesota, they were the first to see the protests and should have been the first to see a rise in the numbers given the large numbers and close contact. Nope. Minnesota numbers are in fact going down with less than 400 cases state wide today and only 9 deaths. Again all deaths are to be mourned but given the dire warnings of the coming apocalypse, it appears Minnesota has done alright. And speaking of casualties, 81% of Minnesota's deaths occurred at nursing homes. As a man whose mother lives in ab assisted living facility I again have a vested interest in this.

And it has been well documented that states like California, Pennsylvania, New Jersey and Michigan were routinely sending sick nursing home patients back to their homes, which infected the then healthy ones. I have not even mentioned New York, where on March 26, a nursing home worker called a radio station [I heard the call] and said Cuomo was doing this and it was going to lead to disaster. It did...to the tune of probably 20-25% of all the New York deaths. Oh, not to mention the countless and needless tragedies that occurred because he failed to clean the subway system for months, while allowing essential workers to ride them daily. And he cut back on the number of subways in service which meant the spacing was even less than the preferred social distancing of 6 feet.

All the while good honest citizens were being lectured about "safe practices" and don't dare go take a walk on the beach or surf by yourself in the oceans. And church attendance???? Heaven forbid we do that...but it was fine to get an abortion or go to a marijuana shop. Someday, there will be a reckoning of all that transpired during this nightmarish period and I am quite comfortable with the side of the line that I stand on. I honored all rules, followed procedures and did what I believed was right for my country, my mom, and my friends.

But the more I learned, the more I realized this was a safety issue, it was a political one. Shame on ALL the politicians, who always tell us "do as I say, not as I do." Never again.

California_Dreamin 2020-06-13 18:42:55 UTC #1237

zambonir...by the way, I never said I thought face masks in large gatherings was the worst idea. I simply believe requiring people to wear them is foolish, there is no evidence that they work. None. If there was, we wouldn't be playing the game of "she loves me, she loves me not" so often. I can count at least 5 times since March when the WHO, CDC and local and state governments have changed their minds, you know this as well as I do. And never with a shred of evidence either way.

Look, let me be clear...I have no problem with those who wish to wear masks all the time, have no problem with those not yet comfortable venturing out or going to restaurants, no problem with those who aren't ready to get back to normal. Fine, I am OK with all of that. What I have always had a problem with was the dictatorial way these rules were put into practice and then changed on a dime depending on which way the wind was blowing. I have never been one to change direction simply because the wind does.

julio 2020-06-13 18:47:38 UTC #1238

Yeah, I saw your numbers. But I didn't see any suggestion as to what those numbers mean, even to you, except "good," more or less.

Without doing any heavy analysis of your numbers - inevitably, at the beginning of a pandemic, new infections are going to outstrip "recovered" patients. Over time, as a given wave subsides or just passes by a population, the number of recovered cases will outstrip new cases. No argument. But I'm not at all clear how meaningful that really is, or why you think it's meaningful. If the overall infection rate is still way less than necessary for herd immunity - and I don't know anyone who argues that we're even close to that level (except perhaps Trump, but he's not exactly knowledgeable!), then there will be additional waves of infection. If we just assume that it's "over" or "past," and abandon commonsense precautions (e.g., masks, sensible social distancing), and continue to eschew other commonsense practices (e.g., population-wide testing, contact tracing) because they're "too expensive," then those follow-on waves are likely to as bad, or worse, than the initial wave.

So I'm not optimistic. Optimism would require that I see serious leadership and action at the federal level, and that's not going to happen until January at the earliest. Optimism would also require that I see Americans behaving responsibly and rationally - and frankly, I don't expect that to happen either. Some of us will be sensible; but many obviously will not. The trouble is, Americans are ignorant about what a dangerous pandemic can do, because most of them have never known what life was like before vaccines for things like polio existed. Most Americans just assume that if they do become ill, the magic of medicine will cure them - although most of them have no idea what's going on biologically, and thus no idea of what they expect medicine will do for them.

But, if those who believe differently want to expose themselves, whether because they believe they have to (or because our economic system means they do have to, to survive), or because they believe they have a "right" to take foolish risks... so be it. Darwin. The rest of us will avoid such people like the plague. Very like the plague .

California_Dreamin 2020-06-13 18:54:31 UTC #1239

julio...thank you for your reasoned and honorable rebuttal. Much appreciated and respected. We can agree to disagree on this subject while agreeing on many other things this site provides as an outlet. And as a voracious learner, I am always going to be open to new information and updates and I have changed my mind on more than one occasion...I was convinced that both Jeff Stone and Odubel Herrera were going to win batting titles, I am now convinced NEITHER will.

So...there you go!

bkox 2020-06-13 19:14:12 UTC #1240

California_Dreamin 2020-06-13 19:20:31 UTC #1241

It will never happen again, never. I don't care who says what, Americans will never allow this again. Remember, it only worked this time because we followed instructions, the protests demonstrated that if enough people resist, there is little government can do but watch. People will never allow this to happen again. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

We will not be shamed.

California_Dreamin 2020-06-13 19:26:06 UTC #1242

Oh, and the people who work at the CDC are next to God when it comes to accuracy. Masks, no masks, shutdown, no shutdown, travel, don't travel, ventilators, what ventilators? N95 masks, what N95 masks? I would prefer to listen to Jean Dixon and she hasn't been around to make a prediction in 30 years. Heck, Carnac the Magnificents track record is as good!

California_Dreamin 2020-06-13 19:28:13 UTC #1243

A rule of thumb for me...find out what Fauci says...and do the opposite. Given what he said today, if I were the NBA I would be canceling ASAP since he said all looks good for them.

LegoDoom 2020-06-13 19:48:29 UTC #1244

I have had no faith in the CDC from the start of this, so I don't really care what they have been saying, but it's obvious that masks help stop the spread of disease. They should be required in public, at the very least when you are indoors. What is the opinion for why they shouldn't be required? Because people find it inconvenient?

As for if there will be another lockdown... the US didn't do it properly the first time, so it doesn't really matter. Just another stopgap until a vaccine is developed. Other countries are managing this much better while we are butchering just about everything.

I am going to travel in 3 weeks. I have done some research and am oddly more comfortable being on a plane with a mask than I would be in a poorly ventilated restaurant right now.