About that 2016 Phillies draft class

[Philsmania]

Two words frequently and deservedly applied to it are "much maligned" but...

Moniak netted us Syndergaard who won five games--and considering that we won a playoff berth by just one game, every win was important--and pitched very well in the clinching game against the Braves.

Gowdy was a part of the package for Gibson who won ten games and, again, every win was important.

Romero got us Sosa who has been a good reserve and was a factor in the Cardinals series.

Perhaps that draft is paying off for us after all, if even only just for one season!

[allentown]

I'm not totally buying some of this. We also included Sanchez in the Syndergaard deal and Syndergaard's $21 million salary certainly was a key factor. Moniak was an interesting lottery ticket for them to turn over to their development staff, as is Sanchez. I saw Howard as the biggest part of the Gibson deal. Gowdy seems to finally be healthy and his 98 IP last year is encouraging. He was striking out one per IP in high-A when we dealt him, which is best-in-career for him, so certainly a legit lottery ticket at time of trade. He is only 24 this year in AA, and has been on the IL and development list. He is now a relief pitcher, but we must evaluate a time of trade and he did have value then. Romero had value.

[phillychuck]

Another problem is measuring the return on traded assets as things like "wins". If Gibson and Syndegaard had not pitched the innings they did, someone else would have, and we can debate whether that other individual would have won more or fewer games (that's why stats people talk about wins above replacement). Sosa's small sample size was certainly above replacement value, but could Sosa's time have been taken by another freely available player who had 50 good ABs?

[andyb]

I guess it did extract a tiny bit of value for those players. It just does not mean much. Syndergaard was more about picking up his salary and frankly the 0.6 WAR we got from Thor plus playoffs is probably less than what Moniak will do pre-free agency.

We actually got much more out a different failed number one pick, Kyle Drabek, when he helped us get Roy Halladay. Though Travis D'Arnaud was the most valuable piece we sent in that trade it is pretty undeniable that the return we got was great.

[Philsmania]

Well, the post was kind of toungue-in-cheek but, plain and simple, at least Moniak and Gowdy were going nowhere in this organization. There was a good chance Moniak would have been non-tendered this offseason. And even if he gives the Angels more WAR than the Thor gave the Phillies, it is doubtful that he will contribute to an Angels team which plays in the ALCS or beyond. And, Gowdy figuring things out? Please, he had a 9.90 ERA and 2.075 WHIP in 32 games and 40 IP in AA this past season. Not a particularly small sample size. Even if he was in a hitter's park league, those numbers are still really bad. If he was eligible for six year free agency, I suspect the Phillies would have let him walk if he had a similarly poor showing in Reading.

I think Romero will be a guy who one of these years has a good season in someone's bullpen. However, he is a fungible element.

[BaseballCat]

Philsmania, I appreciated the positive intent of your post

[zambonir]

Well, things are going so well right now it doesn't matter, but if Moniak had actually worked out we could have traded him for Luis Castillo, not Noah Syndegaard! And if Gowdy had actually worked out he might have fetched Gibson straight-up.

Also if Moniak had worked out we might still have O'Hoppe (at least for now). Or we could have traded O'Hoppe for Edwin Diaz.

[allentown]

Gowdy figuring things out? Please, he had a 9.90 ERA and 2.075 WHIP in 32 games and 40 IP in AA this past season

Nobody suggested that Gowdy had 'figured things out'. The big issue with Gowdy, during most of his time in the Phillies organization was not a failure to figure things out, it was that he was injured. I believe he was injured at the time we drafted him. He pitched 9 innings the year we drafted him, then missed the next two years injured.