2024 Phillies Season Discussion

[BostonRoss]

Pache was just a placeholder until the Orioles got a better outfielder. Same with the Phillies; it just took longer.

[zambonir]

Well I think the Phillies hung onto him because they weren't sure about Rojas. I don't think the Orioles were planning to get two more OFs in 72 hours. In theory they might have only gotten one and only sent Kjerstad down (since he's only useful as a starter whereas Pache is a decent last bench piece who can't be optioned). But then they got two.

Obviously Pache did not last long on the waiver wire, still think he's a weird fit for a serious contender but probably three or four other teams would have grabbed him among the 10 or 15 worst teams. I still think he'll play in the league for many years, though he may not always go to arbitration.

[Philsmania]

Seranthony has been really good with the Orioles while Hays was meh for us before getting hurt. Even with the bizarre Pache part, Orioles still seem to be winning that deal.

Pache was just a placeholder until the Orioles got a better outfielder. Same with the Phillies; it just took longer.

And now he's a fill a hole guy for a rebuilding team.

[bkox]

Seranthony has been really good with the Orioles while Hays was meh for us before getting hurt. Even with the bizarre Pache part, Orioles still seem to be winning that deal.

yeah but evaluating a trade after 8IP and 38PA would be silly.

[zambonir]

I'm still not sold on Hays as anything but a role player (which is fine) but he was more than meh. Started off 1-8 in his first two games but 9-29 (.310 BA) in his next seven (with one more AB in the game he got injured in). .833 OPS in his last 14 days (which is obviously now frozen). And still has an OPS over .900 against LHP overall. I just don't think he's enough of an impact bat from his weak side to take away defensive production from Marsh or Rojas.

But, moot for now anyway. It's also interesting that Stevenson can play CF. That plus being LH should really give him the edge over Wilson in the final cull.

[Callison]

The Phils will approach to their stars' nonperformance is to let them work it out on the field. Sometimes it's better management to sit nonperformers. Not in the Phils' repertoire.

Sosa is an obvious sub for Stott. Sosa is every bit as good a defender as Stott. Likely the best IF on the team, IMHO. The Phils want to keep him as a backup IF, which a team has to have, but he should have been given a shot in LF. Yes, his hitting hit a wall, but he showed incredible talent at the plate with a lot of PT. He could get it back. Been said that he is an IF and not ready to play OF. Didn't stop Dave Roberts from playing an IF in LF against the Phils when his team was running out of hitters. Sure enough, he muffed one. For OF replacment, take your best guess who is going to perform. Things look a lot better w/o Merrifield and Pache.

At the moment Hays looked like he was ready to take over LF, he gets a hammy. They think like Marsh, maybe 2 weeks. Hays sounds eager and confident.

Watch the Phils closely and you'll see how to manage when your entire team slumps at once.

[zambonir]

The Phils will approach to their stars' nonperformance is to let them work it out on the field. Sometimes it's better management to sit nonperformers. Not in the Phils' repertoire.

But the proof is in the pudding. Thomson is not inflexibly against giving guys days off. And Sosa played a ton last year when he was either a better choice than Bohm or Bohm was at 1B. But his core philosophy of patience and loyalty has yet to fail (when you see the forest for the trees).

[Austinfan]

Stevenson is also faster, which provides value off the bench as a PR, but has far less power and lacks the arm for RF.

[andyb]

We will have both a left-handed and right-handed bat on the roster in September beyond Hays, Marsh, Rojas, and Castellanos. We really need a pinch hitter more than a pinch runner though potentially. Assume the extra bat on the playoff roster will be matchup dependent. While Stevenson can pinch run, we also have Rojas in reserve (or Sosa) that are just as fast.

When Hays comes back we need Wilson less because there is no playing time available against left-handed pitching. Whether the team decides Stevenson is better than Dahl or Clemens though is an open question. Stevenson is potentially the 3rd best bat among those 3 and getting some power off the bench in the postseason might be a higher priority than a pinch runner that is not really needed.

[zambonir]

I think if they wanted Dahl back he'd already be back. But Clemens will presumably get a look. I suppose you're right that if all you want is a PH HR, either of those guys are better. But if you had Stevenson to PH for Rojas he can just go right to CF. Similarly if you had Hays hit for Marsh you'd still have Stevenson to put in the field if you want.

I'm just not sure Thomson and the front office won't value fielding more than PH, whether that is the versatility Clemens provides as an IF or the fact that Stevenson can play CF (and a better LF than Clemens or Dahl).

In NLDS they should be able to carry five.

[andyb]

I think if they wanted Dahl back he'd already be back.

He was gone from LHV for a period while he explored free agency. Last Phillies game was 7/6. Played 2 games with LHV on 7/24 and 7/25 and then was a free agent until he re-signed this past weekend and played Saturday and Sunday. So he played a grand total of 4 games in 5 weeks and was not even on the LHV roster when they recalled Stevenson.

Dahl could very well be in play for September but they probably want him to have a good week or two of games before they would think of recalling him. He had the option of exploring free agency but really found no takers (likely from potential playoff teams). Whether he is better than Stevenson is an open question but at the moment Clemens is struggling so both Dahl and Stevenson might be potentially ahead of him.

We'll see who the Phillies pick on 9/1.

[zambonir]

No, that's not right. He was DFAed on 7/8, became a FA on 7/10 and re-signed with the Phillies on 7/22. But he was hurt in LV. Went on IL 7/31. Activated 8/10. So you're right about the fact that there's no way he was in play for the spot. I just figure his having failed the first time around and him not being on the 40 puts him behind Clemens, though of course they could DFA either Wilson or Stevenson (or a pitcher) if they have to.

[David_Criss]

The most predictable transaction: Walker up, Marte optioned.

[andyb]

Dahl likely would not have re-signed with the Phillies without an assurance that he'd be in play for September and the postseason. Of course he has to play well but we also know that all these options (Wilson, Stevenson, Dahl) are likely mediocre major league hitters if they get overexposed. I got the timing of free agency wrong with Dahl, but the upshot is he had not played so was not going to be recalled when Hays got hurt.

And the 40-man roster is no barrier. They can easily clear a spot if they need to. Anyone without options Rodolfo Castro, Buddy Kennedy, Kolby Allard, and Michael Rucker for instance are using their last option. Someone could also go on the 60-day IL. Simply put, 40-man spots are a complete non-issue late in the season. If Buddy Kennedy is not going to get any consideration for a September recall (because Wilson and Stevenson are ahead of him) then all you are doing is just granting him free agency a few weeks early. Two guys we added in recent months (Tarnok and Tyler) were added not to help this year but because they had an option left for next year.

[zambonir]

Dahl likely would not have re-signed with the Phillies without an assurance that he'd be in play for September and the postseason.

I guess. I saw it more as nobody really wanted him that much to begin with. So why not go back to where you already were (including Allentown) with a team that does have a chance at the World Series? Worst case, he's getting a ring and a share anyway, and maybe gets to be part of the taxi squad. It's an easy promise to make (and break) regardless.

[andyb]

He probably rented an apartment in LHV too. Play a couple more weeks, have a reasonable shot at the September roster and the postseason versus platooning for a bad team like Miami. That makes sense for Pache but not for Dahl.

[Austinfan]

I think they saw enough of Dahl and Clemons to move on. You only get so many shots.
One guy to watch is Kroon, red hot since he returned. But RH so he'd be the alternative if Wilson falters.

[andyb]

They would not have re-signed Dahl if they wanted to move on from him. Stevenson is better defensively, but he is not a better hitter. You sure love your AAAA older guys. They are just all pretty mediocre. There is a reason we went out and got Hays - we thought he was better than what we had.

[Austinfan]

They need to finish the AAA season. They've signed some other players for that roster recently.

[andyb]

They need to finish the AAA season. They've signed some other players for that roster recently.

They could easily have added other players in the organization from lower levels to finish the season. They always wanted Dahl back but allowed him to explore free agency. They signed him this year for a higher AAA salary to get him and they promoted him to the majors already. And his 1.012 OPS is the highest on the team.

No they are not just filling out a AAA roster. They signed him because if he plays well he could easily get more major league playing time this year. He does different things than Stevenson who really won't play much over Rojas anyway and might head back down when Hays is back.