2024 Phillies Season Discussion

[zambonir]

They keep saying Turnbull probably won't go back to starting. He could be an underrated bullpen piece still.

Walker legitimately could have been the 4th playoff starter last season but Sanchez was showing more (including, supposedly, in workouts) and Walker was having slow starts. The outing was only 2 1/3 innings anyway.

If the Phillies did decided to make a play for Crochet they might be able to offload Walker's contract somewhere. If he isn't cooked, paying half is perfectly reasonable to let someone else find out if he can be their Kyle Gibson

[jimbomill]

They keep saying Turnbull probably won't go back to starting.

We were winning when he was starting, so I'm not so sure bullpen is the right place.

[andyb]

In the past you have criticized AF for favoring crafty pitchers who can barely break 90 but have good stuff. Now that he is touting someone who throws harder and with decent stuff, you are again denigrating his opinion.

The comments on Walker are based on the fact that there will likely be some rebound in velocity because of his age and the observations from his minor league rehab. AND the fact that the Phillies are not dumb and they are treating Walker as if he is a pitcher that can help them.

And Phillips showed more of what he is last night. AF loves AAAA minor leaguers. The ones with only average stuff like Phillips are just not good bets to thrive in the long term in the majors. Does not mean they can't contribute and improve, but AF was just assuming a minor league pitcher with an ERA barely under 5.00 was better than a major league pitcher with pedigree who was underperforming as he recovered from an injury.

[andyb]

I don't think they know what role Turnbull would play. If everyone were healthy today (Ranger, Turnbull, Walker) they might still go with Turnbull as the 5th starter because he simply has pitched better than Walker this year and shown better stuff. The innings concern with Turnbull is no longer there. Getting 40-50 innings out of him in 7-8 starts is not a concern any more.

[David_Criss]

All I can say about these last three weeks is at least we aren't White Sox fans......

[gmwannabe]

pretty close. I can't believe we are witnessing 2 Philadelphia collapses in 8 months. will they be able to even make the playoffs? I'd change things and pick the lineup out of a hat. It couldn't hurt. I didn't stay up to watch last night so I don't know if Woo is that good or the phils made another Cy Young.
gm

[zambonir]

We were winning when he was starting, so I'm not so sure bullpen is the right place.

We were but they have been very dismissive of the possibility of getting him stretched out to start again. Of course if Phillips was a mirage and Walker can't be adequate, what else have they got? But by the time he actually is ready to pitch in a major league game it would make more sense to spend that month getting him ready for the playoffs, where he will not be a starter (unless things go really wrong).

If he was able to actually pitch again in 10 days rather than three+ weeks, than sure, let him start for a while and transition back to the pen later.

[Austinfan]

They'll turn it around, Turner and Harper will stop pressing, JT is getting his timing down and hopefully Stott will remember how to hit.

Phillips had a bad night (Wheeler did as well), but he's the 6th/7th starter and paid like such. As I pointed out, he needs to develop his changeup to stick in the Show. His other stuff is back of the rotation meh, so he needs a full portfolio of pitches to have a chance.

Walker is supposed to be the 5th and is paid like a 4th. He must have a plus splitter and throw 92-93 to be effective, before he went on IR he was throwing 90-91 and the splitter wasn't working - that Walker is worse than Phillips.

Allard is dog meat, 90-91 with meh secondary stuff. He's just here to eat a few innings until Ranger returns.

[zambonir]

Walker is paid like a third who was going to be a luxury as the fourth. But the money is spent, if he can still pitch like a 5/6.

I think it's hard to expect Turnbull to come back and actually be the guy we saw in April. He could also get hurt again. That's just been his story, unfortunately.

[Austinfan]

Turnbull will be an interesting decision, his injury history suggests he'll have a limited market as a FA.

[zambonir]

I doubt it will be any kind of decision. He has said all the right things this year but given his history he can't be too happy about how the season unfolded. Cost him a bunch of money. He made all that effort to turn his injuries into service time and in the end still wasn't able to benefit from that (ironically it probably would have been better for both him and the Phillies if they could have optioned him and kept him on a starter's routine; he only got hurt after making the move from starter to bullpen back to starter. Before Walker got hurt it was widely assumed Turnbull was going to accept an assignment, knowing he'd be the first guy up).

He may have failed to pitch himself into a good contract but someone will give him a guaranteed major league deal.

Plus the Phillies will still have Walker. And if they do unload Walker they'll probably be thinking either bigger or smaller (other depth guys, plus the possibility of Painter).

[xogfog]

Speaking of Painter, has there been any update at all about his recovery? He should be throwing by now.

Edit: I found this from about a month ago:

Phillies No. 1 prospect Andrew Painter making encouraging progress in recovery

[Austinfan]

I expect Painter to start next season in Lehigh, on a pitch count as he builds up strength, and if he shows well, be a July call-up. Phillies have 5 starters going into next season, and they'll probably have Abel, McGowan and Seth Johnson in the Lehigh rotation next year. So no reason to rush.

[allentown]

The Phillies slump becomes more serious with every passing game. Starting to look like the Eagles collapse last season. Every team has losing streaks and the Phillies still have a cushion over their division rivals, but they aren't just losing, they're losing uglier and uglier. As with the Eagles, it seems the team attitude and vibe have changed drastically. Both are very highly paid older teams. Both went from floating along to suddenly brittle. With the Eagles it became clear fairly fast that a big source of trouble was disconnect between players and the coaching staff, but that seems not to be an issue with Phillies.

[Callison]

IMHO, Turnbull wil only be vauable as he was was when he was starting - fully stretched out, as the Phils describe it, with his A game. But the Phils doubt that's possible. Maybe they're right. But if so, Turnbull's B game is the bottom of the long reliever's level. Guy is scary fragile, too. Turnbull needs to get completely rehabbed, whatever time that takes.

Looking like the Phils will desperately need every arm they've got, so Walker gets back in the rotation. When the starters are healthy, the Phils need to move him to long relief.

Though the Phils' moves at trade deadline were not as dramatic as they could have been, you have to admire the focus of them to solve problems without overspending. Special good luck to Hays. Note Pache lasted about a week with the O's.

Here's a cyber round of espresso for the Phils and a reminder that the second half has already started. The Phils hitters have to do a lot more if the team is going anywhere.

[zambonir]

Concern is warranted, but baseball is still not football. The current streak is not that much worse than how they played in September of '22, even if the worst-case for it would be more like May of '22. It's just unfortunate they are supposed to snap out of it on a West Coast road trip.

Philsmania called for Thomson to be fired in last night's game thread. But that never works anyway.

It's a slippery slope, it started with injuries and as the pitching has gotten worse the offense keeps pressing/feels more pressure. It was hard for me to imagine them doing better than 3-7 on this road trip and if the Braves keep taking advantage, they will have to get right and fight back.

On the other hand, baseball also isn't football in that they will still make the playoffs. Yeah, if they had to play a three-game series next week you might expect them to just roll over, but two months is a long time. I don't think the chemistry or vibe is an issue here, though if it is, you actually do have to include the fact that they shipped four players out, never mind that none of them seemed especially good or important. Demoting both Marsh and Rojas not insignificant either (doesn't matter if it's right or wrong, players and teammates still have feelings about it presumably).

But it's really more just production. When the big guys (both hitters and pitchers) aren't at their best, other players are exposed. We saw them thrive in Turner's absence and do fine when Harper and Schwarber first came back (against the Dodgers) but it didn't last, and the weak spots in the line-up look that much weaker.

The Rangers were easily this bad last season for a while and won it all. The DBacks and the '22 Phillies too. What's been lost so far, maybe, is the trophy you don't even get for having the best record in MLB. Or even the NL. That's something I wouldn't take lightly only because it could force them to play four games on the West Coast in a possible NLCS. And they didn't do so great only playing three last year.

[flyers19rw]

A problem with a veteran lineup is when it goes bad, it’s hard to remedy. These guys have had a lot of success in their careers. Because of that they probably have a reluctance to make changes in their games. Now it might be needed because what some of them are doing isn’t succeeding. When Charlie was running the show and he made suggestions to players about hitting, he got their ear. IDK if Long or Thomson has that respect.
A couple of things stick in my mind about this club. The Dodgers needing a SS, basically let go of Turner. Did they know something that the Phillies didn’t? Bohm isn’t a long ball hitter. Did he mess himself up by being in the HR Derby? The Day Care stuff is wearing thin. These guys are pros and should have a more professional approach to the game. The fun is in the winning. Some of the other stuff can go away.

[Austinfan]

Bohm is hitting fine.
Turner and Harper and pressing, chasing pitches outside the zone and getting themselves out.

[RTaylor]

Oddly enough the two games I've seen in person this year were the first game in London and last night in Seattle. It's stunning how different the team looks.

[billgtrman]

I’ve been on vacation and missed both games. Another series loss and this time some runs were put up but nothing added since the 4 run inning. I think the team figured it was enough sadly. But with an inconsistent & shaky BP, also for some of the players plate pitch selection and overall managing, the team has a definite down & out losing feel. Does it require a managing change to shake up things? Do we need to have Harper, Turner & Realamuto have eye exams and detailed physical exams, maybe even a psychiatric checkup? It’s amazing we went through with an Eagles collapse later last season and now a Phillies collapse mid/later season, can’t believe this is actually happening. This has to change soon, and the team should be focused to play every inning like it is your last