2023 Phillies Regular Season Discussion

[Sabin]

Prior had a number of injuries that shortened his career, but a UCL tear wasn't one of them. His career was ultimately done in when exploratory surgery revealed vast structural damage to his shoulder in early 2007 (he came up to he bigs in 2002 at age 21). The surgery showed tears to his labrum, rotator cuff, and anterior capsule (tissue surrounding shoulder joint) and put him on the shelf for the rest of the year, after which he was non-tendered by the Cubs. He attempted a few comebacks with different teams, but never made it past the minors.

There was controversy at the time over Dusty Baker's use of both Prior and Wood, as he routinely let them throw north of 115 pitches in a game. Some later re-evaluated Prior's mechanics and tried to pinpoint some details that put additional strain on his shoulder. Prior himself has chalked it up as much to a collision he had with Marcus Giles one year, and a liner off the elbow from Brian Hawpe in another - both resulting in stints on the DL with injury to his pitching arm - as much as anything. He doesn't blame Dusty for the heavy usage, but it's hard to fathom it didn't play a role.

He actually now sports Dodger blue, serving as LA's pitching coach.

[LegoDoom]

Prior himself has chalked it up as much to a collision he had with Marcus Giles one year, and a liner off the elbow from Brian Hawpe in another - both resulting in stints on the DL with injury to his pitching arm - as much as anything. He doesn't blame Dusty for the heavy usage, but it's hard to fathom it didn't play a role.

Prior was fine after the 2005 liner from Hawpe. I still think it was his shoulder, but the other injuries didn't help.

[bkox]

Seranthony Domínguez will go out on a minor-league rehab either Friday or Saturday. He's feeling good. Probably two or three in the minors before he's back.

— Matt Gelb ( @MattGelb ) July 19, 2023

[schillingfan]

Mark Prior was one of my favorite pitchers. IIRC, cubbies drafted him third and we had the fourth pick and took Gavin Floyd. The last month of the season Dusty routinely had Woods and Prior upwards of 130 pitches. I remember looking that up. I have always blamed Dusty for ruining both pitchers’ careers.

[schooldoc]

Prior was taken 2nd overall by the Cubs. Joe Mauer went 1st to his hometown Minnesota Twins.

Gavin Floyd did indeed go 4th to the Phils in that draft. With the 5th pick, Texas selected Mark Teixeira. Tex was a Boras guy though, and the Phils and Scott Boras weren't on the best of terms in those days (think JD Drew).

That 1st round was pretty awful other than Mauer, Prior, and Tex. The next best player was David Wright, taken 38th in the supplemental 1st round by the Mets.

[Sabin]

i'd tend to agree, but was just relaying what the player said himself (of course with MLB, rather than MD, affixed to his name.. but still..).

[andyb]

Seranthony Domínguez will pitch for Triple-A Lehigh Valley in Toledo tomorrow night. Phillies are also moving Noah Song to Triple A -- he will pitch two innings Saturday. Club must activate him by July 28.

— Matt Gelb ( @MattGelb ) July 20, 2023

[Philsmania]

Prior was taken 2nd overall by the Cubs. Joe Mauer went 1st to his hometown Minnesota Twins.

Gavin Floyd did indeed go 4th to the Phils in that draft. With the 5th pick, Texas selected Mark Teixeira. Tex was a Boras guy though, and the Phils and Scott Boras weren't on the best of terms in those days (think JD Drew).

That 1st round was pretty awful other than Mauer, Prior, and Tex. The next best player was David Wright, taken 38th in the supplemental 1st round by the Mets.

In fairness, Floyd turned out to be a good pick, mot great but good. For whatever reason, he and the Phillies staff were oil and water, unlike other pitchers who came up around that time (Myers, Hamels, Silva, Madson).

[zambonir]

I don't see it reported on here, but the transaction log has Darick Hall being optioned to AAA after the game.

— Matt Winkelman ( @Matt_Winkelman ) July 20, 2023

[andyb]

Lehigh Valley lineup not posted yet, but if Cave is not in it he is probably on the plane tonight. Suppose they could also bring Clemens up if they think Harper will not play 1B more than half the time (assuming Bohm will still play there against LHP to get Sosa in the lineup).

Cave is in the lineup (as are Muzziotti, Wilson, and Kingery). Clemens is not. So he is probably on the plane.

Interestingly Cave is playing 1B though. And they are in Toledo, so I guess flying out from Philly is not necessary to get to Cleveland. It was a small worry that Harper would not be ready to play 1B every day which is why Clemens makes a bit more sense at the moment.

[zambonir]

I wonder if they are just going to wait for the trade deadline and not bother calling up an OF they'd just have to send back down (or include in a trade). Maybe Harper only actually plays 1B 3 or 4 times until then, Marsh plays LF against RHP and Clemens (and possibly Harrison) also available.

But given the Toledo thing it's also possible who played for the Pigs last night doesn't really indicate anything.

[BaseballCat]

Potentially good 6th starter material

Phillies Sign Shaun Anderson To Minor League Deal

[zambonir]

More like AAA depth I'd think, though who knows if they'll trade for starting pitching. Seems pretty Coveyesque. But maybe he'll be better than the last guy they brought in off good KBL numbers.

[zambonir]

Gelb says Harrison will be activated today and speculates Cave might also get the call (and to play some 1B too, for now). We'll know soon I guess.

Phillies observations: Top-of-the-order woes, Noah Song decision, new roster...

It also seems like there might be a tiny bit of behind-the-scenes tension over Song. Nothing fractious, but obviously Thomson wants the best 26 players, period (never mind that he might view Harrison or even Covey as being better than similar younger players). Not some pitcher who may or may not end up being a significant contributor to the Phillies (let alone while he's the manager).

[julio]

Is there a world in which Dylan Covey actually adds enough value this season to justify losing Noah Song?

Covey looks like a "ROOGY" - RHP, one-out guy, can be effective against RH hitters. But lefties just murder him, and with the three-batter rule now in force, if you go to Covey to get a RH hitter out, and he doesn't get the out, and he's now facing a LH hitter (and you cannot take Covey out because or the three-batter rule), he just gets clobbered.

The three-batter rule makes it very hard to keep a relief pitcher who is effective with the platoon split, and horrible without it. Covey's an example. He's effective against RH bats, but half the time, he's faced LH hitters (49 out of 100 PA), and they have killed him. In a mop-up role, he's going to give up runs, and he has no future here.

Song might well be just as bad in 2023, in the mop-up role. But Song could have serious value in 2024 and beyond.

Thomson is, rightly, focused on 2023. That's his job, as the manager.

Dombrowski's job as club President is to balance 2023 needs against the organization's future. There is, inevitably, some tension between the short-term (2023) and longer-term (2024 and after) needs of the organization - and thus, some potential tension between the manager and the President ( At the end of the day, the roster decision is Dombrowski's, not Thomson's.

[andyb]

One of the articles about Song had talked to the last Navy pitcher who served for 3-4 years and then tried to make it back into baseball. He couldn't throw on ship at all (less of a problem for Song but we also know he did not throw), but the bigger problem was rebuilding his body and not just his arm into that of a pitcher. Too much muscle in the wrong places. This is a correctable issue but probably more the second year.

If the Phillies believe that Song can rebuild his body by next season into that of a pitcher (that can sustain 95+ velocity) then really you sacrifice Covey to keep Song. Covey has been useful in more than mop up situations lately (down by 3, not by 8 runs). Song will be less prepared to do that. I don't think we care what happens in 10-run games. But it would be nice if he could survive an inning or two in small leverage situations. I have no idea if he can do that and 2 games in AAA probably will not tell us too much.

In 5 weeks we get another pitcher too, so this experiment is really short term.

[zambonir]

I don't believe it will actually be Covey who takes the spot that goes to Song though. They kept him around before Sanchez emerged and have continued to keep him around due to a combination of the Song scenario and other injuries (as well as Brogdon failing to earn his way back up in the two-inning role). But that doesn't mean he's staying forever.

By August 1, assuming Alvarado and Dominguez are both back, Covey and another pitcher will be gone from the 26-man, and a third one could be too if they decide to add anyone in trade (unlikely but possible). There are guys who could be optioned (Bellatti, Marte) and guys who could be DFA'ed (Vasquez, Hoffman) but they're all likely better than Song or Covey.

Dombrowski doesn't sound any more convinced than Thomson really, in that article. Yeah he has to consider the future but he also knows how tight this playoff race is (again). Even the extra September pitcher might be needed.

It's also possible Song has enough trade value to be enticing (both to another team and to the Phillies because it lets them leave out another young pitcher).

[andyb]

Well they did bring up Cave along with Harrison. Ellis and Hall optioned. Hall clearly did not thrive in a reserve role. His swing got longer as he probably tried to do too much. I suppose Ellis and Hall are both DFA candidates at some point if more players are acquired at the deadline though there are a couple of options before them.

And to add to this, tonight's lineup has Harper at 1B, Schwarber at DH, and Cave in LF.

[zambonir]

Well okay, here we go!

[andyb]

This should be a better team. Cave has been hitting a bit better than Hall. Maybe Hall is better defensively than Harper at 1B (likely but Hall has actually been lousy this past week defensively), but the delta between Cave and Schwarber defensively is just larger.

I suspect Harper will DH against LHP both to get Sosa in the game and to ease his transition to playing 1B full time. And if we get 3 right-handers in a row, Cave could start one at 1B though that will be rare.

Still probably need a right-handed power bat. It just would be nice if that were a platoon bat if Cave were playing better.