2023 Phillies Regular Season Discussion

[Aquapong]

Covey’s next game would come against the Nats. Maybe he can give them some decent innings there.

[David_Criss]

Ortiz for Covey would make a lot of sense for this three-game set. Then he can be sent back to give Snachez a crack at the 5th spot. I also think bringing back Jake Cave for Guthrie makes sense now, too. But they don't ask me.

[zambonir]

I think Girardi always liked the idea of guys getting two full days off this way, perhaps Thomson felt (and feels) the same way.

And not adding a reliever implies they might give Covey one more shot. Or they just have a bigger chain of transactions in mind between now and then.

The Buck cousins (generation after the original three brothers - Mahlon, Jim, and ?); Rochelle Levy (now deceased); Herbert Middleton (John’s dad); small pieces held by Giles, Monty, and (I think) Gillick. I may have forgotten someone, but that’s the basic picture

Yeah I wouldn't have even been able to name the current owners of the Phillies if julio hadn't jogged my memory with the above. I knew one of the Bucks was Pete because he's not the guitar player in REM. And the other is Jim. There are just two of them.

The previous generation was Jim (the same guy as Mahlon, in fact - J. Mahlon Buck Junior, the current one being his son, the 3rd), Whip (Alexander) and Bill.

The team wore memorial patches for Whip, Jim and Claire Betz. Curiously, Bill Buck, who was the middle son, just died in March but I guess had long ago divested his interest in Tri-Play? I don't recall the team acknowledging him at all?

For all his many flaws, there is really no way to argue Giles doesn't deserve to be honored for what the team accomplished during his time, whether it was four World Series appearances (not counting this most recent one) or building CBP. Just not sure you have to honor owners in the same way as baseball people.

[andyb]

The answer on Covey is that he appears to still be in play for the Saturday start. And since he lasted less than one inning he could be available in the bullpen as soon as tomorrow this week.

I think I would just go with Sanchez on Saturday and use his left-handedness in a short start to turn the lineup around for the next reliever. We'll need a 40-man spot pretty soon too with Hall and Marchan rehabbing.

Phillies haven’t decided what to do with Saturday’s starter. Dylan Covey will be available in bullpen beginning tomorrow. Possible they do a bullpen game Saturday. Maybe you’ll pitch.

— Matt Gelb ( @MattGelb ) May 30, 2023

[zambonir]

Then he can be sent back to give Snachez a crack at the 5th spot. I also think bringing back Jake Cave for Guthrie makes sense now, too. But they don't ask me.

He can't be sent back, only DFA'ed (which will presumably still happen, just not quite yet). And they just don't need another LH bat.

Can't say I'd want to see Covey in relief over the next couple of days though! But that also tells you they are still nervous about Ranger. If one of the long men has to go in and go two tonight he probably wouldn't be available Thursday.

[Callison]

Hurt my feelings as a Phils fan to lose Rolen, but after the money was the same, STL won IMHO because they were more committed to winning. Just a biz decision by Rolen. The Phils need to look at themselves when they lose players like Rolen. You're in the biz of attracting and keeping players like Rolen. Everybody show up for the WOF.

[RolenRules]

Agree 100% Callison. Losing Rolen was devastating to me. I hope the fans in attendance will put any ill will behind them and that Rolen gets a standing O on WOF day.

[Callison]

If the Phils still think Covey can pitch, let him prove it at AAA. There is no reason to see him through another pitch with the Phils.

Whoever you Phils Coaches choose for 5th starter, please let it be somebody else.

[zambonir]

They can't just send him to AAA. He has to go on waivers. Which is why the Phillies were able to get him in the first place, the Dodgers couldn't send him to AAA either - and supposedly the Phillies weren't the only team to claim him.

Not saying he should stick around, but they are clearly considering their various procedural options. I suppose it's also possible they just bring Falter back, if they think a two-week AAA break is enough (he wouldn't be eligible to be recalled until Thursday or Friday so that would be another reason to slow play this).

Apparently they plan to have several of the Iron Pigs starters enter the game after an opener or two, to get them used to the role? Sanchez's last "start" was from the 3rd inning until the 8th.

[zambonir]

Ah, seeing the article now, Wall of Fame night does indeed continue on August 12th for Quinn and Carpenter, but Rolen's not available. I think it's cool he gets his own night though.

Scott Rolen among three to be inducted into the Phillies Wall of Fame

[allentown]

He did call all the shots. He even served as his own GM for a time.

[LegoDoom]

Hurt my feelings as a Phils fan to lose Rolen, but after the money was the same, STL won IMHO because they were more committed to winning. Just a biz decision by Rolen. The Phils need to look at themselves when they lose players like Rolen. You're in the biz of attracting and keeping players like Rolen. Everybody show up for the WOF.

I talked about this with friends a bit today. The payroll of the team in the early 2000's leading up to Rolen's trade doesn't indicate this. They upped payroll leading up to his trade and then upped it again leading up to the new stadium with Thome and Millwood. Even without that Burrell and Myers were young and good and Utley was promising.

Other than not signing Drew what is the reasoning behind the Phillies not being serious about committing to winning?

I don't really know why Rolen wanted out, but I think he was open to coming back.

[Yogi]

Nick c is back to his form from last year, we are in trouble. We need to play players who are doing things, not just the highest paid. Our highest paid players are the major problem for this team, they are not performing.

[BostonRoss]

Nick c is back to his form from last year, we are in trouble. We need to play players who are doing things, not just the highest paid. Our highest paid players are the major problem for this team, they are not performing.

You are responding to me, but I'm not sure which post. Apparently something from last week, but I don't know what. I don't remember posting about Castellanos.

In any case, I don't know what you are suggesting. Which players "are doing things"? Whom do you want to play, and whom do you want to bench?

[Sabin]

Nick c is back to his form from last year, we are in trouble.

                                                                                                                           
Year   Age  Tm Lg   G  PA  AB  R   H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB  SO   BA  OBP  SLG  OPS OPS+  TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB    Pos Awards
2022    30 PHI NL 136 558 524 56 138 27  0 13  62  7  1 29 130 .263 .305 .389 .694   97 204  15   3  0  2   0        *9D/7H

Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 5/31/2023.

                                                                                                                                
Split             G  GS  PA  AB  R   H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB  SO   BA  OBP  SLG  OPS  TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB ROE BAbip tOPS+ sOPS+
2023 Totals      53  53 224 207 35  62 18  1  5  28  2  2 16  58 .300 .348 .469 .817  97   2   0  0  1   0   3  .393   100   123
Last 7 days       6   6  27  24  3   8  3  1  0   2  0  0  3   6 .333 .407 .542 .949  13   0   0  0  0   0   0  .444   133   155
Last 14 days     12  12  53  48  5  13  4  1  0   3  1  0  4  12 .271 .321 .396 .717  19   0   0  0  1   0   0  .351    77    96
Last 28 days     23  23  98  91 12  25  8  1  1   9  2  1  6  26 .275 .316 .418 .734  38   0   0  0  1   0   1  .369    80   100
Last 365 days   142 140 583 549 68 153 33  1 12  63  7  3 31 139 .279 .317 .408 .725 224  13   1  0  2   0   5  .353          78

Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 5/30/2023.

[Callison]

Leg - good knowledge about the Phils' finances. When I say IMHO like I did, I mean to say I'm guessing. That's my best guess. You know the real reason or a better reason, I'm listening. Why couldn't the Phils close Rolen?

And notice I said MORE committed. Not that the Phils were underinvesting.

I hadn't even remembered the not-signing-Drew disaster. As a fan, I want Drew signed. The prize of the draft. A Pyrrhic victory is a victory that inflicts such a devastating toll on the victor that it is tantamount to defeat. The Phils' refusal to pay Boras' outrageous demands is a perfect example. Hurt the Phils big time, likely hurt Drew, aided and abetted STL, Boras still made out like a bandit AND his rep grew even more. Not enough commitment to winning here, IMHO.

[LegoDoom]

I obviously don't know. When talking about the Rolen situation it was mentioned he wanted to be in the midwest (but I'm pretty sure he was open to a trade back to Philly, so it doesn't make a lot of sense). Schilling also wanted out, so there was something there. I guess the JD Drew situation and the Schilling trade makes a bit of sense as to the team not seeming competitive, but Schilling asked to leave so it's not like you can say the team got rid of him.

But the payroll was definitely increasing and they had a new stadium coming up. The timing is just odd to say they weren't trying to compete (and I am very much aware that this is the narrative).

Maybe the players didn't like the moves the team was making, but they were definitely trending up at the time Rolen wanted to be traded. My point is that it was just odd timing.

[zambonir]

We discussed all this extensively (perhaps even repeatedly!) at the time of Rolen's Hall. I considered just putting the WOF news there but thought the thread was older than it was (original post almost two years old but we were back at it in February).

Hall of Fame Discussion 2022 and Beyond

[BostonRoss]

Kody Clemens is on the All-Star ballot!

[zambonir]

I smell a viral campaign.