2022 Phillies Wall of Fame

[zambonir]

I don't recall seeing this (here or in the media or in my email box from the Phillies. Probably just missed it but Gelb referenced it in his chat. He pointed out this might have been planned for 2020 originally).

Phillies to induct Bake McBride, Ron Reed to Wall of Fame

[Philsmania]

Tug got all the glory in 1980 but Ron Reed was really the rock of the Phillies bullpen for so many years.

And, he played a couple years in the NBA for the Detroit Pistons. And, though he was no superstar and never started a game, he put up respectable numbers off the Pistons' bench.

Ron Reed Stats | Basketball-Reference.com

[andyb]

Final cleanup for the 1980 team class? I guess we'll have to wait till 2048 for some of our newer favorites to get in.

Maybe after they induct the obvious stars they should do multiple inductions in 2028 for the 20th anniversary.

[zambonir]

At this point the prop bet would be whether Rolen gets in before five guys from '08.

Also wonder what happened with Jamie Moyer who was considered once. I don't know if he fell out with the org (after the brief broadcast stint) or if they decided it would look weird for him to precede his teammates (and now that most of them are eligible he also lags quite a bit behind IMO).

[VoteForKalas]

Bake McBride was my favorite Phillie for years - amazing CF and a better hitter than many assume

Glad he is getting his due. Reed was also very deserving

[andyb]

Will put this here as it is more related to the retired numbers we discussed before. Cole would clearly be 4th on the list of 2008 numbers to retire, but this is not too promising for those chances.

Óscar Mercado will become first Phillies player since Cole Hamels to wear No. 35...

[bkox]

Never thought they would retire Hamels number. His numbers are very similar or even slightly worse than Schilling's time as a Phillie.

I also think that if Roy Halliday hadnt died, they wouldn't have retired his and Bryce would be wearing 34 now.

[andyb]

Well maybe Cole replaces Eflin in the rotation next year and adds 15 more wins to his total. Never thought they would retire his of course. The issue with the other 3 is that they are pretty close in terms of perceived value. If they only did advanced metrics they might limit it to Utley, but I really think they retire none or all of them in the end.

[zambonir]

Unofficially they still haven't changed the (also unofficial) policy. I think Roy probably would have still gotten his # retired had he still gotten into the Hall (which he would have, just maybe not first ballot). And Curt would have too though if he went in with a different cap or just because of his personality it might have been a conversation.

But Rolen is probably going to put an end to the policy. And Cole's not getting into the Hall. I'd still be comfortable drawing the line at Rollins/Utley for retirement. For the Wall, it should be a very big club. Pat and Charlie are already on it. Question is are they waiting on Jimmy for the others (and for his Hall eligibility) or has it just been delayed because of the skipped years (2017 for Rose and 2020 for COVID).

[zambonir]

Gelb with more on that

While Mercado was the first player to wear Cole Hamels’ 35 since he departed in 2015, the number was in use for three years and few one noticed. Bullpen coach Jim Gott wore it from 2018 to 2020. Mercado wore No. 35 in Cleveland, and Phillies director of clubhouse services Phil Sheridan said that was why he issued it. There isn’t a directive to ice any numbers that are not retired.

But Sheridan hasn’t used 6, 11, or 26 since Ryan Howard, Jimmy Rollins and Chase Utley wore those numbers. They aren’t retired. But until there is a compelling enough reason, Sheridan will freeze them.

The Phillies have retired No. 34 for Roy Halladay, but it’s a number they used often after Halladay stopped playing. A.J. Burnett, Aaron Harang, A.J. Ellis, Brett Oberholtzer and Andrew Knapp wore 34.

Hamels hasn’t officially retired and is said to be aiming for one more comeback attempt in 2023. When he’s ready, it would be terrific to see the Phillies honor him with a pregame ceremony.

Phillies notes: Zack Wheeler is doing more with less, the scout who signed...

[zambonir]

lol

This is a franchise that needs to win five more games to reach 10,000 victories but that reached 10,000 losses in 2007 ... 15 years ago. This is a franchise that reached the postseason just once in a 23-year period (1984 to 2006) and now is trying to end a 10-year streak without October baseball. This is a franchise that has only so many wells of great teams and players from which to draw, and those wells are only so deep.

There are the late 1970s-early 1980s clubs. There is the Macho Row team that won the 1993 NL pennant. There is the mini-dynasty of 2007-11. Yes, in the years ahead, a host of certain inductees will become eligible for the Wall: Jimmy Rollins, Chase Utley, Ryan Howard, Cole Hamels, more. It has been a struggle for the Phillies to get to those more deserving stars, though. Before McBride and Reed, the team’s most recent Wall of Fame inductee was Manny Trillo, also a standout on the ‘80 team, also here just four years. Jim Thome, inducted in 2016, had a great-but-brief tenure with the Phillies: three years. If the Phillies make the playoffs this season, the pool of Wall of Fame candidates and popular Alumni Weekend attendees would immediately double. Hell, Kyle Schwarber might be inducted next year.

The Phillies didn’t have to bring back Pete Rose. But they could make things...

[Philsmania]

But Rolen is probably going to put an end to the policy.

You mean Rollins?

I would agree that Rolen belongs on the WOF but I would draw the line at retiring his number. Rolen never played on a Phillies team that did anything special (like Dick Allen did in 1964 and 1976) and he wasn't aroud long enough to fall into the "many years of distinction with the Phillies despite playing for bad teams" honor (like Chuck Klein who played the better part of a decade primarily with the Phillies). And, also unlike Allen, he hasn't shown any interest in burying the hatchet with Philadelphia. And, Allen also has the distinction of being the Phillies' first black star player. If Rolen does get into Cooperstown, it's a jumpshot in terms of whether he wears a Phillies or a Cardinals cap. The greater body of work was in Philadelphia but his very best seasons and greatest moments were in St. Louis. He did leave both places somewhat accrimoniously though, so it wouldn't surprise me if he does the blank cap thing.

[VoteForKalas]

I would agree that Rolen belongs on the WOF but I would draw the line at retiring his number. Rolen never played on a Phillies team that did anything special (like Dick Allen did in 1964 and 1976) and he wasn't aroud long enough to fall into the "many years of distinction with the Phillies despite playing for bad teams" honor (like Chuck Klein who played the better part of a decade primarily with the Phillies). And, also unlike Allen, he hasn't shown any interest in burying the hatchet with Philadelphia. And, Allen also has the distinction of being the Phillies' first black star player. If Rolen does get into Cooperstown, it's a jumpshot in terms of whether he wears a Phillies or a Cardinals cap. The greater body of work was in Philadelphia but his very best seasons and greatest moments were in St. Louis. He did leave both places somewhat accrimoniously though, so it wouldn't surprise me if he does the blank cap thing.

I disagree that team success is needed for a player to be put on the WOF.

Rolen was the best Phillies 3B since Schmidt and might have had a case league-wide while he played. He was clearly one of the best players on those Phillies teams - only Schilling and Abreu would have a case against him IMO.

Yes, he had to leave PHL to win a ring and get the accolades he deserved and that is mostly on the Phillies, not Rolen in my estimation. If that poisoned the well for him here, that is simply another stain on the organization. They need to make an effort to bring him back and honor him. I would be shocked if Rolen is not respectful of that honor and fails to take it seriously.

[Philsmania]

I would agree that Rolen belongs on the WOF but I would draw the line at retiring his number. Rolen never played on a Phillies team that did anything special (like Dick Allen did in 1964 and 1976) and he wasn't aroud long enough to fall into the "many years of distinction with the Phillies despite playing for bad teams" honor (like Chuck Klein who played the better part of a decade primarily with the Phillies). And, also unlike Allen, he hasn't shown any interest in burying the hatchet with Philadelphia. And, Allen also has the distinction of being the Phillies' first black star player. If Rolen does get into Cooperstown, it's a jumpshot in terms of whether he wears a Phillies or a Cardinals cap. The greater body of work was in Philadelphia but his very best seasons and greatest moments were in St. Louis. He did leave both places somewhat accrimoniously though, so it wouldn't surprise me if he does the blank cap thing.

I disagree that team success is needed for a player to be put on the WOF.

Rolen was the best Phillies 3B since Schmidt and might have had a case league-wide while he played. He was clearly one of the best players on those Phillies teams - only Schilling and Abreu would have a case against him IMO.

Yes, he had to leave PHL to win a ring and get the accolades he deserved and that is mostly on the Phillies, not Rolen in my estimation. If that poisoned the well for him here, that is simply another stain on the organization. They need to make an effort to bring him back and honor him. I would be shocked if Rolen is not respectful of that honor and fails to take it seriously.

I said he belongs on the WOF but that they should not retire #17 for him, that's what I was trying to say.

[zambonir]

You're going back to the older stuff in this thread but I meant Rolen was going to put an end to the policy of Hall of Famers having their Phillies' numbers retired. He is going to get into the Hof and will not have his number retired. He should of course be on the WoF (and already should have been) but clearly the tension is still there.

Whether Rollins, Utley and Howard also put an end to the policy in the other direction (i.e. you don't have to be in the Hall to get your number retired) remains to be seen, but is likely.

[BostonRoss]

How long do you have to be retired to be considered? It's been over five years for Rollins and Howard.

Regardless of whether those guys are eligible yet, they've made some odd choices over the last few years in my opinion. Bake is questionable, having been a Phillie for only five years. Reed was a Phillie for longer, but he was less valuable since he was a relief pitcher (and not even the main one). Trillo had an even shorter tenure. Sure, they were all important parts of the 1980 team, but so were a lot of others (Ruthven, Lonnie Smith, even Marty Bystrom). Who's next, Luis Aguayo?

I guess there are a lot of Whiz Kids on the Wall as well, but they were all Phillies for at least a decade. I wonder why Andy Seminick isn't there. He was even a coach for a while.

Besides Seminick, there are some longer term Phillies who never seem to be considered. Tony Gonzalez comes to mind. There were a lot of chances to select him before he died last year, and there are plenty of others from the 1964 team included. I wonder if he didn't want the honor. I would rather see guys with longer résumés get in than short timers.

[zambonir]

They lowered the threshold to four years so they could put Thome in in 2016 (still a questionable decision IMO though I get the intangibles). I think the cancellation of Rose in 2017 and the death of Halladay (who also needed the four-year rule) kind of messed up their timeline. As did the pandemic, big-time. Had they been able to have the 40th anniversary that year they could have just done Trillo and left it at that. But once they knew that wasn't going to be until 2022 that opened the door for these guys.

I think they are also waiting for Utley, Rollins and Howard to all be eligible - and HOF-eligible - together so they can decide once and for all how to handle it. The '80s overkill was weird for sure, but it was important to finally do Abreu. Now they should do Rolen before going all-in on the '08 team (besides Charlie and Gillick who are already covered).

[BostonRoss]

They definitely had to honor Abreu. And I have no problem with Hall of Famers (and Halladay was a special case). If Rolen wasn't ready to do this yet, I would have gone with Rollins, or one of those old timers. If I had to pick a short-timer, I might have gone with Cliff Lee.

[zambonir]

Sidenote: Rollins didn't officially retire until 2019. Howard as well.

[BostonRoss]

Well, they were both eligible for Cooperstown.