2022 Phillies Spring Training

[zambonir]

For sure one has to assume that Segura, especially if he's really in terrific shape (which he also said last year, and it wound up showing) will come around and will be neither as bad as his ST numbers nor, perhaps, as good as he was last year.

It's more interesting to me regarding Vierling, inasmuch as he's gone from being handed a mere roster spot to a significant role to, it now seems, at least for now, a starting role - even against platoon considerations. Whereas a similar spring training performance by Bohm, who has as good of an overall track record, seems to be sinking him.

Recency bias, I realize, and also the arc of "light goes on for a hard-working role player" is easy to buy into as "highly touted draft pick can't figure it out."

[Sabin]

Pretty sure NYCPhils was being sarcastic with the cartoonish/emoji-like shakes fist.

That's the way I took it. Of course, it's an internet message board, so YMMV (or E[Everyone's]MMV?}.

[Austinfan]

There's also situation bias.

Vierling can play well enough in center to be patient with his bat, at least until Moniak shows that his trip to Lourdes (Long) has paid off.

Bohm's defense is not good enough to be patient with a mediocre bat when Stott and Camargo are viable options.

[bkeich]

Camargo as a starting 3B is really not a viable option, just a short term replacement. 1000 AB in the majors with a 93 OPS+ and his numbers going down every year so far doesn't scream starter to me. His low point of .611 OPS was last year, Bohm is almost certainly better than that even when he slumps.

[Austinfan]

If Bohm is average defensively, yes, he's a better option than Camargo.
But he hasn't been close to average.

Camargo is odd, his fall off in the majors was primarily driven by a steep decline in BABIP.
Then last year in AAA, he had a 155 RC+, with a .361 BABIP.
So was that an outlier, or did he make some adjustment?

[phillychuck]

Camargo is an interesting case. His career OPS+ in AAA is OVER 150 in 4 AAA partial seasons, which is star level. He had a nice rookie year with the Braves, slumped, and was knocked out of the majors by Austin Riley, arguably the best 3B in the big leagues. There are players who can hit in AAA but can never master the big leagues, but they are few and far between. It is far more common that good to great AAA hitters (and make no mistake, Camargo has been great) get trapped in AAA and show later that they actually CAN hit in the big leagues when given a full shot. 2023 infield could include Bohm, Camargo, and Stott. I'd try to get them all 3-400 ABs this season in the big leagues.

[allentown]

Bohm, Camargo, and Stott. I'd try to get them all 3-400 ABs this season in the big leagues.

That seems impossible with Didi, Segura, Camargo, and Hoskins also in the IF, Castellano/Schwarber in LF and sharing DH duties with Realmuto and perhaps Harper.

Keeping both Stott and Bohm on the 25-man roster, if Camargo is on the 25, seems to not leave enough room for pitchers (I think we carry 13 rather than 12).

[phillychuck]

While we have a 28-man limit it should be OK. Injuries may solve the problem by the time we are down to 26. Camargo can play the OF, too, so there may be spots for him there if players are injured or resting. I think we could get them all 300+ ABs: rest Didi 2 days a week, that gives Stott two starts; rest Segura 2 days a week, that gives Stott/Camargo two more starts, you have seven starts to split among Bohm/Stott/Camargo at 3B each week, Camargo can play OF 1 day each week; Bohm can DH/1B one day each week. You can get maybe 20 ABs each per year from PH appearances to take advantage of the platoon split or to PH for a defensive replacement. I'll bet with injuries it wouldn't be hard to get at least 300 ABs apiece.

[schillingfan]

That first strikeout pitch from Nola, the change-up that drifts back over the plate was what he was missing last year.

[flyers19rw]

It wouldn't surprise me if DD resolved some of this overcrowding with a significant trade in order to obtain a SP with term. Perhaps in the upcoming days as teams get realistic about their lineups and make changes such as the Kimbrell deal between WSox-and LAD.

[zambonir]

Sending Bohm to AAA (or trading him but for what w/o adding a prospect?) is still the easiest path. They are talking about using 16 pitchers instead of 15 in April, and are now preparing to start Wheeler w/o him having made a single spring training start, so I'd say expanding the bench is not on the table.

They are still not really dealing from a position of strength/redundancy. No one knows if any of Didi, Bohm, Camargo and Stott are major league starters (let alone shortstops) and the only guy with trade value there is the one who is untouchable. Probably have to let it play out for a couple of months.

The most likely scenario is that Didi either plays himself into having trade value or onto the bench (or a DFA if it comes to it). Bohm will either play himself back to the majors or into a disappointing trade (just like Howard). And we also can't be 100% confident that Stott sticks (if that's the case hopefully it's less dramatic and more decisive than with the last two guys).

[California_Dreamin]

Honestly, I have stayed out of this up to now but it literally boggles my mind that so many on this site have seemingly thrown Bohm under the bus as in A] trade him for a pitcher [a guy who IF he turns out well will likely pitch 130 innings this year] or B] further damage his confidence by relegating him to AAA Hades which will only further diminish his mental frame of mind as well as any trade value he may still have.

It was not that long ago that we were celebrating the drafting of Bohm and then suggesting he might just be the best clutch hitter on the squad during his rookie year. Far be it from me to know the inner workings of the Phillie organization but if I had a voice at the table I would lay much of the blame on a heretofore terrible development system, and less on the players who have suffered under this system. I saw MM play here in SoCal and if ever a guy looked like a future major leaguer, he did. Same with the rookie version of Bohm.

Ladies and gentlemen, if this team is ever going to make a dent in the upper echelons of the major league reaches they will NEED guys like Moniak and Bohm to make it. I may be in the minority here but count me as one who fully expects Bohm to have a very solid major league career and Moniak to have a decent one. Kingery too! The question for the day remains...what team will enjoy that success.

For their sake, I hope its the Phillies.

[donaldorc]

Mickey Moniak with his second home run of the game!

[donaldorc]

I for one, agree with you CD.

[zambonir]

I don't think the board has thrown Bohm under the bus, I think the Phillies have (and already did). That's on both the manager and the front office and is obvious not just by the way they handled him last season but by the signing of Camargo, the trade rumors, and the way they pivoted so quickly from "Stott can be our shortstop" and "Didi might have to change positions" to neither of those things. And on top of that they took away multiple avenues for him to play 1B, DH or even LF.

We'll see, they could still surprise us by sending Stott to AAA instead (but does anyone really want that?) or taking a shot at finding playing time for everyone but so long as Didi is here - assuming he plays decently - one of Bohm or Stott is blocked.

We'd all love nothing more than to see a 2023-2025 IF of Bohm 3B Stott SS and Kingery 2B (team can still control him if they want, though it seems unlikely) but that's not what this season is about anymore is it?

[bkox]

3 No. 1 overall picks have homered in #Tigers - #Phillies today!

Harper
Torkelson
Moniak

It's only happened 4 times in reg season:

4/15/98 - Erstad Strawberry Nevin
4/30/98 ARod Strawberry Griffey
6/2/98 ARod Surhoff Griffey
8/29/78 Horner Burroughs Monday

Thx @SlangsOnSports !

— Jayson Stark ( @jaysonst ) April 3, 2022

So not only do we have a game with 3 No. 1 overall picks homering, but...

Something else happened that's never happened in the regular season, according to @SlangsOnSports .

Two of those No. 1's (Harper/Moniak) homering off another overall No. 1 (Casey Mize).

Baseball!

— Jayson Stark ( @jaysonst ) April 3, 2022

[bkox]

Put José Alvarado on the team. He'll pitch Wed at Tropicana Field and Joe Girardi won't be able to use him as often as usual to begin the season, but the Phillies need him on the roster to make it all work. Girardi: "We're probably thinking he's going to be OK."

— Matt Gelb ( @MattGelb ) April 3, 2022

[zambonir]

Man, it's gonna be a crazy month. I believe I also read something where Girardi implied he might not have any relievers pitch two days in a row the first few weeks.

The offense might also be the bullpen's best friend.

[allentown]

Honestly, I have stayed out of this up to now but it literally boggles my mind that so many on this site have seemingly thrown Bohm under the bus

I totally agree that Bohm is being thrown under the bus, but it really is DD and Girardi rather than posters on this board, although you are completely correct about some posters, who seem to believe the Phillies can just buy a whole team and win. I don't think it takes a ton of thought to realize that nobody wins without cheap, productive talent. Low-cost productive young talent is the way you can afford to buy stars. Last year's, and even more so this year's, Phillies are (if we shunt aside Stott, Bohm, and Moniak), with the exception of Nola, Eflin, and a few relievers, the best team money can buy. And it isn't good enough, because it lacks solid home-grown talent.

A big part of the problem was a very inferior scouting and player development staff, which is hopefully on the road to being fixed with the latest org changes (although way too late as we no longer have primo draft picks and I am still dubious about our international scouting). But... another big problem has been the way the team has mishandled and shunted aside the best young talent which we have had. The Phillies won't get to the WS until they identify, develop, and trust their young players. No more of the 'they have to pay their dues or wait until the fading vets are gone' approach.

One has to just look at how few young players the Phillies are depending on to recognize how greatly flawed this failed organization is. Bohm is the best near-term young hitting prospect we have. Please, let's not destroy him.

It's good that DD convinced ownership to go beyond the lux tax limit. I think the plan was flawed in signing too many DH types, especially with Didi still on the books. Signing both Schwarber and Castellanos is what placed Bohm beneath the bus. We did this despite being short pitching and with SS a greater need than a second new LF/1B/DH guy.

Yes, we likely have a super offensive lineup for this season and probably next, but with a horrid defense and inadequate pitching, how many wins can really be expected? I see 86-87 as an upper limit. Last year's lost games in which we led late wasn't all due to bad relief pitching. Giving the other team extra outs (and not just physical and mental errors, but hits that an average defender would have prevented). We have built a worst-in-baseball defense for this year.

[rpmcmurphy]

So, is Mickey Moniak the starting CF, at least against righties? I love it when a kid just bangs down the door and forces himself into the conversation. This may still turn out to be a mirage. It’s not uncommon that spring training stats don’t carry over into the regular season, but this has been fun to see.