2022 Phillies Major League Regular Season Discussion Part 2

[zambonir]

Zimmer is probably not going to make it through this season without being DFA'ed unless Marsh is out indefinitely. And if he does, he's non-tendered. He is 30 years old. He's a FA in 2025. He is Roman Quinn or Aaron Altherr or Nate Schierholtz. There is nothing the major league hitting coach can do with him at this point in the season - when he has about 10 better things to do - that would justify an arbitration raise.

Even looking at next year's bench (to say nothing of this year) you are trying to find a spot for Hall. We already know how pointless it is to carry two LH CFs because they did it for a while.

[Austinfan]

Herrera was a CF in name only, he wasn't even above average defensively in the corners.
Not saying they'll keep Zimmer, but he is a viable option given the corner OFs.
And he has talent, speed, power, just hasn't learned to hit.

This is why you look at guys, to gather information.

[bkeich]

Zimmer is 30. It isn't that he "hasn't learned to hit" it is that he cannot hit ML pitching. Because of this he is not really worth holding on to after they get some players back.

[zambonir]

Nothing wrong with looking at guys, but that's not really why they got him. He's a fungible hole-filler, a round peg when the Phillies had nothing but squares internally. Literally Oscar Mercado 2.0, as Matt noted. That he has certain strengths and some potential is exactly why he won't have any trouble getting a nice spring training invite, much like the Phil Gosselins of the world. But even if he makes it to the end of the season he won't make it to the off-season roster shuffle.

[andyb]

In what universe?

In the universe where they have Marsh and Vierling. And Muzziotti next year will be fine as the up and down extra outfielder.

Zimmer is not good enough to devote a 40-man roster to and easily replaceable. They just can't carry Zimmer on a roster that already has 2 centerfielders.

[andyb]

I did not mention it but the lack of a Guthrie move is definitely to avoid losing him now. They probably don't protect him in the rule 5 next year, but the bar on losing him in the rule 5 is much higher than losing him on waivers.

He'll get a shot next year if Vierling continues to struggle. He is a better offensive/lesser defensive alternative to Sosa too. I think the Phillies want to figure out a way to keep him as a roster option next year though at some point he'll hit minor league free agency and be harder to keep.

[Aquapong]

So the Mets rotation is up in the air after tonight. We should miss Scherzer and Degrom this series. Walker is still iffy for Sunday. I can’t believe he’d be pitching with a bulging disc in his back, but we’ll see. Carassco is on the IL.

Personally I’d rather have Wheeler and Thor go tomorrow and keep Falter for Cincy.

[andyb]

Schwarber back in the lineup at DH tonight. Downside of that is we can't play Hall against a RHP though. Zimmer in CF so we really have a weak 8-9 in the lineup with Vierling and Zimmer.

This team really needs to get Schwarber back in the field because that opens up the DH spot for Hall or Harper eventually. Assume we'll hit for Vierling and Zimmer early, perhaps in the 5th or 6th even if we get runners on.

[zambonir]

Thomson said that he decided not to pitch Syndergaard against the Mets for two reasons: one, he went into the eighth inning on regular rest in his last start, and two, Gibson has done well against the Mets. He said that Syndergaard fought him on that decision.

— Alex Coffey ( @byalexcoffey ) August 19, 2022

[fish]

How many times have the Phillies been shut out this year? Rediculous- without looking I’m going to guess 12 times.

Well, before tonight “just” 10 times.

[Aquapong]

Thank goodness this is the last series against the Mets. They own us this year.

[zambonir]

Yeah that whole "they can go toe-to-toe with any time in MLB" theory definitely does not apply to the Mets, no matter how many excuses (the missing player now, the bad play in general earlier) they have.

But, sometimes that still all goes out the window in the playoffs.

For now though, gotta just get that dang split to stay on pace in the playoff race.

[andyb]

Lineup is posted for the first game today and it is essentially the same as last night except for Stubbs. I have some problems with this lineup. Second game is a left-handed pitcher so this means they are going to sit both Hall and Maton from the starting lineup in both games. At the very least Maton should have started game 1 somewhere (for Vierling or Segura) and maybe you even think that Schwarber should start the second game and only pinch hit in the first game.

Thomson has been pretty good so far in helping the team through tough lineup decisions, but he really is playing Vierling too much now. There are fewer choices in CF, but LF is a choice. Hall was going to be the odd man out when Bryce comes up (though with expanded rosters to 28 he could stay to pinch hit), but he looks like he'll be skipped for most of this series. Maton also.

[Austinfan]

They've been playing over their heads, especially without Harper.
They've had to rush Stott, Vierling and force feed Marsh.

The good news is they should get Harper and Eflin back for a September run. Coonrod is back so they have RP depth.

When Schwarber returns to LF, Marsh/ZImmer will be the only weak bat in the lineup.
Stott has turned the corner, but if Vierling doesn't pick it up, he may get sent down, he's not hitting well enough to justify the fall off in defense in a platoon (he's a decent CF, but Marsh/Zimmer are plus defenders).

[Sabin]

I have some of the same thoughts. Last night I was debating whether Hall should've gotten the nod over Hoskins. Granted, Hoskins' numbers against RHPs aren't terrible (.233/.316/.447), but Hall's have been better (.282/.317/.598).

Of course, Hall's are coming from about half the sample amount of PAs, and Hoskins also has 19 HRs against righties, but with Schwarber slotted to DH I thought we would see at least one start for Hall over Hoskins against a RHP.

[andyb]

Hall's K/BB ratios do suggest that some of his offense is probably first time around the league lack of scouting reports, but I do think it is important that he starts at DH or 1B at least half the time if he is going to take up a roster spot. Schwarber is just better suited to start against LHP if you have to choose between them.

Maybe Thomson wants to DH Bohm in the nightcap tonight for defense (Sosa will start somewhere), but maybe you have to shelve that impulse (natural because Bohm's defense was really not great for Nola last night) if you just have multiple players including Schwarber that can only DH.

I also think Maton would probably help them more offensively than either Vierling or Zimmer, so you really need to play him in a double-header because it is not as if he is the defensive problem even in LF where I suspect he is as good as Schwarber without really playing much out there.

[allentown]

Hall's K/BB ratios do suggest that some of his offense is probably first time around the league lack of scouting reports

This still amazes me. How can an MLB team lack scouting reports. A lot of Allentown games are televised. Most teams share at least some leagues with Phillies minor league teams. They should get reports. Video should be readily available. Yet, the same first-time around the league phenomenon of decades ago still persists.

[zambonir]

Maton's just not an OF. He'd never played LF before until last week and only had 7 innings in CF last year in AAA. I would agree he's probably no worse than Schwarber but the nature of the roster with Schwarber's injury on top of everything else is such that there is really no good answer. They need a 5th OF more than they need two middle IFs right now (or they need Hall to be that 5th OF). But neither really an option.

And to look it another way, their current 2nd and 3rd OFs (with Schwarber unable to field) are no better than 4th or 5th OFs to begin with.

I assume everyone is still going to get a start this weekend. Guys are going to need a break tomorrow just as badly as today.

[andyb]

Maton is a better hitter than Vierling against right-handed pitching and that offensive gap in LF is more important than defense. Left field defense is just not important enough to put a 570 OPS guy out there.

[zambonir]

So why not just play Hall there?

I hear you, but presumably Thomson (and the front office) is not viewing Maton as an OF on anything other than an emergency basis. I mean, if they did, you could make the case that he should be ahead of Vierling in any role (including taking the last roster spot in September once Harper's back and they keep Hall).