2022 MLB Non-Phillies News/Notes

[xogfog]

Red Sox sign Trevor Story for 6 years $140 million.

[Philsmania]

In addition to the Yankees retiring #21 for Paul O'Neill, the Nationals are retiring #11 for Ryan Zimmerman.

[BaseballCat]

At some point the Yankees will run out of numbers. Now batting #115 - Anthony Volpe...

[zambonir]

No waiting period for the Nats huh? Do the have retired numbers from Montreal?

[Philsmania]

No waiting period for the Nats huh? Do the have retired numbers from Montreal?

They unretired them.

[zambonir]

Wasn't sure if you were serious! I guess that makes sense. Are they recognized somewhere in the stadium? Would Montreal expansion team pick up the record book/history?

Washington Nationals Franchise Retired Numbers | Washington Nationals

[zambonir]

Pillar to Dodgers, $2.5 million if he makes the team.

Dodgers Sign Kevin Pillar To Minor League Deal

[Philsmania]

Wasn't sure if you were serious! I guess that makes sense. Are they recognized somewhere in the stadium? Would Montreal expansion team pick up the record book/history?

Washington Nationals Franchise Retired Numbers | Washington Nationals

Tim Raines's #30 was retired for all of about four months in 2004 before the Expos moved to DC and became the Nationals and Mike Stanton wore #30 for them in 2005.

[allentown]

A classless orgainzation. Who does such stuff?

[zambonir]

I was prepared to say it's not that big a deal, that it's simply a different organization, but they can't have it both ways:

Every player in the Nats Ring of Honor

I do think if Montreal ever gets a team again something will happen there. There is also a banner of the retired Expos numbers at the Canadiens' arena.

[andyb]

Ring of Honor is a bit different than retired numbers. I think it is reasonable to not recognize the Montreal numbers officially. It was actually a bit interesting when Yan Gomes wore one of the retired numbers during a throwback day Expos uniform game.

Now by all rights they should recognize Washington Senator numbers. I just don't think there are any. Walter Johnson played before there were uniform numbers. They never retired Joe Cronin or Sam Rice that I can find. And the newer Senators never retired Frank Howard as they moved by the time they would do that. The Homestead Grays ceased to exist too before they could retire Josh Gibson (who like Johnson has a statue outside).

Ryan Zimmerman is the first Nat to merit a retired number. Jury is still out on Bryce, Strasburg, and eventually Juan Soto. Retired numbers seem to require a decade plus with the organization for non Hall of Fame players. Or a World Series. If Bryce makes the Hall of Fame it will be interesting to see if the Nats retire his number. I think I would bet that they would not.

[zambonir]

Yeah but I think you're either the same franchise or you are not. They are separate, but having Carter, Raines and Dawson in the Ring of Honor after you actively unretired their numbers sends the message that they aren't worthy of the latter (much as nobody think Pat Burrell should have his number retired, but he's on the Wall).

Nats move fast which I guess is what you do with no history. Werth already on the Wall, Zimmerman retired.

The fact that they didn't win anything until after Bryce does complicate his case I suppose, but even after he ends up spending more of his career elsewhere (presumably with a third team too) he was certainly a franchise-establishing cornerstone.

[andyb]

The Baltimore Ravens have never retired a number, but they won't give out Johnny Unitas (19) to anyone. All the old Browns players are still retired, but by the new Cleveland Browns.

Though to their credit, the Indianapolis Colts have a bunch of retired Baltimore Colts numbers. It looks like there are many paths to this decision.

[zambonir]

I'm not sure anyone in Baltimore is ready to give the Irsays credit for anything still. In fact that Ravens thing seems like a combination of smart fan service and flipping the bird at Indy.

[BostonRoss]

Interestingly, only teams who did not change names when they moved seem to have retired numbers from cities where they used to play. The Braves, Dodgers, and Giants have retired numbers for players who never played (home games) in Atlanta, Los Angeles, and San Francisco respectively. The retired numbers for the A's, however, are all people who played in Oakland. The Orioles, Twins, Brewers, Rangers, and Nationals have no retired numbers for Browns, Senators, Pilots (ha), Senators, or Expos respectively. The Nationals are the only team that unretired umbers after moving and changing their name.

[zambonir]

The retired numbers for the A's, however, are all people who played in Oakland.

And the Phillies have a very large Philadelphia A's Wall of Fame, though no retired numbers.

[LoneStarPhan]

In the case of the Rangers, the team didn't spend too much time in Washington before moving to Texas (11 seasons) and as I recall, they weren't a very good team during most of that time. They were an expansion team that replaced the Senators team that moved to the Twin Cities. The old Senators moved to Minnesota in 1961 and the new Senators started up that same year in Washington.

I saw the old Senators play in Yankee Stadium in 1959 and saw the same team play as the Twins in Washington in 1961 and then saw the Twins several times in the late 1960s when I was living in Minneapolis. Now I see the Rangers occasionally here in Texas.

[Philsmania]

The retired numbers for the A's, however, are all people who played in Oakland.

And the Phillies have a very large Philadelphia A's Wall of Fame, though no retired numbers.

More like used to have an A's section. Until they moved out of the Vet, they inucted a Phillie and an Athletic onto the WOF every season. Then, after moving into CBP, they put plaques with all of the "enshrined" Athletics on the pillar beneath the Connie Mack statue (which moved from 21st & Lehigh to out in front of the Vet in 1971 to across Citizens Bank Way from CBP in 2004) but did not move them over to the WOF along with the Phillies greats and they stopped inducing Athletics to the WOF.

[andyb]

If the expansion Senators had remained in DC they likely would have retired Frank Howard's numbers even though they fall short of Hall of Fame quality. He was the franchise hero who led the league in home runs a couple of times. The Capitals for instance retired Yvon Labre, a very average defenseman, because he was their one reliable player during the expansion years when they were truly awful. Howard did not play as long for the Senators as Zimmerman did for the Nats, but was probably comparable as an overall player and their roles as the franchise icon were similar. Zimm had a bit more WAR (40 to 37) in their career, though part of Howard's WAR is his bad outfield defense when there was no DH and the only other good hitter on the Senators (Mike Epstein) was a first baseman. Howard was a very large man (6'7", 255 that was often more like 270) and by the time he hit his late 20s he should not have been in the outfield.

[allentown]

Not unreasonable to stop inducting A's into WOF, since it's been a very long time since there were Philly As and that mine is likely mined out, but should have kept plaque inside stadium.