2021 Phillies Major League Regular Season Discussion (part 2)

zambonir 2021-09-17 03:42:47 UTC #401

Imagine how the Angels feel!

I see it a bit more big-picture - there's no telling if he'll ever have another season like this, even if he's still an All-Star (much like most of 2016-2020), or maybe he only has one more in him. I hope the Phillies can take advantage.

bkox 2021-09-17 11:10:57 UTC #402

It's not clear whether J.T. Realmuto will be able to play Friday in New York after suffering another potential injury against the Cubs.

More from @JSalisburyNBCS https://t.co/KC4hulHvf5
— NBC Sports Philadelphia ( @NBCSPhilly ) September 17, 2021

David_Criss 2021-09-17 12:16:59 UTC #403

Why aren't the likes of Medina, Moore, Falter or heck even Rosso starting the bullpen games? I don't see how they can stay sharp only pitching every several games for an inning. These guys don't excite me, but they have all been starters very recently. Could they not open and hope to get 3ish innings out of one of those arms? Or are they so bad, they know 3 innings would put them behind several runs by the 4th? Man I miss the days when we could be excited about the thought of Spencer Howard coming up and being an ace............sigh

zambonir 2021-09-17 16:24:45 UTC #404

They are probably overthinking it. The bullpen games are scripted for match-ups, and they don't see any of those guys actually being able to get 9 outs (whether in the 1st or the 4th). With good reason, especially in Moore's case! But this bullpen also isn't deep enough to burn so many arms, or ask the worst pitchers to keep us in the game early.

Releasing Vince still seems like a mistake too. It's hard to believe they couldn't do an opener and then try to get four innings from Vince and Falter (or Moore) combined.

Sounds like the next one might go back to more of a spot starter model. In a normal year, especially with off-days, they might have gone to a four-man rotation out of desperation, but with Nola struggling and Wheeler at such a high innings mark, can't do that either.

andyb 2021-09-20 21:45:27 UTC #405

In the other thread I had counted 40 men on the 40-man roster as they made the Luke Williams for Moniak move, so we did not have to DFA anyone. But now we just DFA'd Tyler Phillips and the roster is at 39.

So who are we going to sign for the last 2 weeks?

zambonir 2021-09-20 21:56:02 UTC #406

Yeah literally leaving their options open I suppose. Lots of minor leaguers taking BP in Philly today, do you go crazy and make Ortiz a power bench bat for two weeks?

But also, probably a pitcher if they can find one.

andyb 2021-09-20 22:02:07 UTC #407

Since Ortiz has not played in a month it would not be him. I can't imagine they want to start Stott's clock yet (he would not be rule 5 eligible till next winter), but that makes more sense. Crouse in the bullpen makes a tiny bit of sense too.

But more likely I think they want waiver flexibility as spots are opening and Tyler Phillips is more of a control specialist that likely makes it through his DFA waivers.

Or - I was just thinking COVID waivers - but they still have not added Muzziotti back because I assume he got a rehab waiver. But maybe they have to do that at some point in the next 2 weeks so they are just taking care of business in this roster move. Muzziotti is another guy I might send to AAA for those last 10 games. And to winter ball of course. Maybe they can get an Arizona League waiver for him.

zambonir 2021-09-20 23:11:45 UTC #408

If Stott was right-handed...

Muzziotti's status has indeed been mysterious, I would have thought he had to go back on as soon as he reported to extended, or at least within 30 days of doing so.

David_Criss 2021-09-21 01:26:25 UTC #409

The Phillies announced they’ve designated minor league righty Tyler Phillips for assignment. The move clears space on the 40-man roster for utilityman Luke Williams, who has been activated from the COVID-19 injured list.

Sounds like the 40-man is full - they could always move Bohm to the 60-day

zambonir 2021-09-21 02:01:26 UTC #410

Andy posted about this in another thread. 40 is not full. They either have another move or want to leave their options open. And probably also just decided Phillips wasn't going to make the off-season cut. Bohm isn't injured anymore.

Philsmania 2021-09-21 14:32:00 UTC #411

It's wierd that the Phillies seem to be giving no thought to bringing Bohm back up. I wonder if they will even mention in their plans for next season. We've seen this movie before, player goes from hyped prospect and/or heralded rookie to seeming afterthought within a year.

Marlon Byrd...heralded rookie in 2003, afterthought by the end of 2004 (and traded early in 2005).

Domonic Brown...heralded rookie at the beginning of 2011, afterthought by the end of that season.

J.P. Crawford...heralded rookie beginning of 2018, afterthought by the end of that season (and traded the subsequent offseason).

Now, Alec Bohm...heralded rookie in 2020, afterthought by the end of 2021?

andyb 2021-09-21 14:48:18 UTC #412

We do tend to overhype rookies in Philly. In his defense, Bohm missed his AAA year and probably benefited from teams not having much of a book on him last year. Those holes in his swing and approach were exposed this year and the bad defense compounded it all. Everyone who wants to pencil in Stott next year should remember he has not played in AAA either and has his own defensive questions, especially if the hole in next year's team is at SS.

Philsmania 2021-09-21 15:53:16 UTC #413

Could it be that Bohm and Stott are destined to be the right side of the infield instead of the left side?

zambonir 2021-09-21 18:03:21 UTC #414

Funny though, didn't we used to complain that the Phillies were too conservative with their promotions and their willingness to play young players? Kingery never went to AAA, Herrera's arrest pressed Haseley into action with just 18 games and Bohm had 0 due to COVID. At least Stott will be able to proceed normally. If he's ready in July, great, if he's just a September call-up, that's okay too.

They really have to decide what position he plays though. Bohm as well of course. Everything else really turns on those two things.

Part of me hopes Didi can come back as an offensive player if you can't offload half his salary. Still kind of think the best move would be to trade Segura, since you could offload him (and get a return). Then cobble together 2B options (including Didi or a $4 million FA, and perhaps Kingery or Stott eventually), rather than cobbling together SS options.

LF - Bohm or FA
3B - Bohm or FA
CF - ?
SS - ?

Bohm could definitely be traded too. But as with Byrd (and Spencer Howard) they'd be selling low. And yet he has more value than most anything else on the roster (including AAA).

VoteForKalas 2021-09-21 19:03:44 UTC #415

This is true, we did complain about this all the time years ago. Utley was definitely held back, Howard delayed a bit by Thome's presence on the ML roster etc.

Now, I think it is more about the quality of talent rather than their progression to the ML level unfortunately. That is a much harder problem to solve.

Until the Phillies commit to figuring out why other organizations can evaluate, acquire, develop and retain quality talent at a higher clip while the Phillies continue to scuffle along in mediocrity or worse, we will be watching a similar movie every season just like we have for the vast majority of the last 25 years.

Philsmania 2021-09-21 19:06:12 UTC #416

Last 25 years? I would say that 2001-11 were pretty good years for us.

VoteForKalas 2021-09-21 19:12:41 UTC #417

Vast majority of the last 25 years was my statement....

Obviously from 2007-11 was the exception.

2001-2006, the teams were somewhat competitive, but never made the playoffs due to some of the same issues i.e. talent on the pitching side especially

zambonir 2021-09-21 19:31:21 UTC #418

This era could have wound up being similar to the Bowa era... if they'd drafted successfully from 2015-2018 (and also been a fair bit worse, i.e. higher picks, from 2012-2017, except for that one year).

Philsmania 2021-09-21 19:51:57 UTC #419

All things considered, Wade did a good job building that team. However, he just couldn't make the last moves needed to finish the job. The trade deadline was always his waterloo. I often think that if you could take the best qualities of Lee Thomas--master wheeler and dealer and hole-filler (though not a good builder)--and the best qualities of Ed Wade--good builder (though a weak wheeler and dealer and hole-filler)--you would have had one darned good GM.

andyb 2021-09-21 20:04:08 UTC #420

Kingery did have one third of a year in AAA. I wanted him to go back there because his BB/K ratio cratered with the promotion. He still hit home runs there, but one could see that he had an approach that could be exploited.

I have never thought the Phillies were systematically slow at promotions. Prospect-watchers get frustrated sometimes when players are working on the basics (like Bohm with his 3B defense no matter what his bat did). Utley stands out of course, but we were pretty quick with Hamels and Rollins. Howard started slowly in Low A but got promoted pretty quickly once he figured things out.