2021 Collective Bargaining Negotiations

[zambonir]

I don't think the owners would want to cap contract length, locking players up (or spreading out the AAV) often benefits the team, and they would want it even more if players were not only reaching free agency at 24 or 26, but again at 27 or 29.

Compared to the other leagues, your proposal is not that weird. NBA contracts are never longer than 4 or 5 years (and there's no arbitration). NFL rookies sign for four years (and get paid, but of course aren't guaranteed). Baseball is obviously different in terms of how long it takes these guys to arrive and also how many of them fail. You want to be able to pay a Rhys Hoskins what he is actually worth but also not get stuck having a Dom Brown under contract. I wouldn't get rid of arbitration, I would just reform the heck out of it (in terms of the criteria and in terms of it being a two-way street) and also give it to every player from Day 1.

[andyb]

Capping contract length is not the worst of ideas. Remember it is another way for wealthy teams to get around AAV, so while small market teams use it to lock up talent at a discount, it is not like something on the order of a 5 or 6 year contract limit would deter that strategy greatly. Three years is too short, but something in the 5-7 range might be worth thinking about if coupled with ways for younger players to get paid more before free agency.

It is not among the top dozen things they are fighting about though. Players probably should be more interested because less money going to 40+ players like Albert Pujols is more money for the rest of players.

[flyers19rw]

I’m sorry but I don’t believe that the owners have any respect for the game. All that they care about is squeezing out a profit of some sorts at the end of the year. They’re business people in the end. However one can squeeze the lemon too much and then it’s dry. That ownership can’t decipher how much interest in their game has dropped over the last seventy-five years makes them beyond obtuse. Their desire to have more control will end up in a work stoppage that will be a mortal wound to the game.
If you think that I’m wrong, drive by a baseball diamond today and see how many games are going on. Then go by a basketball court or a soccer field. It will tell the story. Folks like us phans are a group of slow dying dinos.

[philsphan67]

I agree the owners have more of the blame, but this falls on the players (and agents) too. EVERYONE has known the games have gotten way too long and the players have refused a pitch clock, don't police themselves, fought mound visits (which were added and did help A LOT), etc....play-off games avg 3:40 and with a few changes could easily be 3:15 (still too long IMO). The game is tough to play, I watched it with my own kids. But game shouldn't be tough to watch - the current game is really tough to watch. Too little action.

What is ironic to me, is that a game with less velocity actually helps the older players who lose reaction time as they age. Watching Adam Wainwright pitch is fun, watching a reliever avg 96 and needing 25 pitches to get through a middle inning is not. The game is fixable, it will never go back to the popularity of years past.

[Aquapong]

I would argue that a lot of mediocre players would get paid rates completely out if line with their production with a salary floor.

[andyb]

I think a salary floor would mean that the middle class of baseball would get paid more. Right now the big free agents get their money and players good enough for arbitration get money. The players that don't get paid aside from the younger players which is another issue, are the 2nd and 3rd tier free agents. Think Freddy Galvis for instance whose 3 free agent years were $4 million, $5.5 million, and $1.5 million. He was worth about 4.5 WAR over that period. But there just is not much money because the 25th best SS in baseball is not that different from the 35th best (and Freddy is in that below average starter/good utility player range).

I know it offends sensibilities for a below average starter to get $5 to $10 million. Heck, the price for Matt Moore and Chase Anderson probably increases with a salary floor. But on average per WAR the middle class in baseball is probably vastly underpaid. A salary floor would also include increased minimum payments as well. Increasing the minimum by $200K would increase team payrolls by like $3 million. A $100 million pool would do the same (note that might not be included in AAV calculations).

It should not offend us if mediocre baseball players get paid a bit more. The majority of them are underpaid per WAR relative to other age and service time groups. They are still in a group where they get cut if they don't perform.

[zambonir]

I don't think a $600,000 player making $2 million is as big a problem as teams carrying $70 million payrolls when it should be twice that. Those players should all already be making $2 million now. But it's up to the teams to distribute the money correctly. And if there aren't enough good players to support that, don't expand. But the money is already being made (leaguewide). And the good players are already being paid, they just wouldn't get traded by lower-budget teams if a salary floor equalized the budgets across the league. Teams like the Rays would keep their stars and spread the money out across the bottom of the roster, while a few teams would give out stupid contracts to get there. No different than now.

This is not generallly a problem in the other leagues. Nobody is overpaid on the Sixers because there is a salary floor. The top rookies are getting $1-5-$3 million but that's also all the veteran free agents get (at the high end).

It is the least of the problems with the concept, the revenue-sharing piece is the bigger obstacle. For all their admirable baseball savvy, there are just too many teams that can't actually afford to field a competitive roster, and then claim they need public funding on top of that. And yet somehow the richest teams want it too.

[bkox]

Players can juice until the lockout is over:

Report: MLB stops testing players for steroid use

[zambonir]

That's pretty wild, though if the lockout isn't long it would probably be hard to time your usage. Tygart mentions microdosing but I have a hard time believing that would really have a tangible impact on someone's performance or conditioning. I would think to really cheat you'd still have to break the law (either illegal drugs or dubious prescription) in addition to worrying about getting tested on resumption.

Also wild, when you click on that article ESPN already has the scoreboard up for February 25 and 26 game that will obviously not be played.

[Philsmania]

The official MLB pages also have the games up.

Sigh, ordinarily the truck would have left CBP for Clearwater sometime this week.

Philadelphia Phillies Schedule

[zambonir]

Sure, the schedules still exist, but if you go to MLB.com there is no widget for upcoming games or scores. The Athletic has also wiped its MLB scoreboard ("no games on this date" indefinitely).

[andyb]

Stark and Rosenthal on the crazy process of starting up whenever we get a CBA. Free agents, trades, rule 5 draft, arbitration hearings. Should be fun.

'Absolute insanity': Why baseball is bracing for The Wildest Spring Training...

[andyb]

I am not sure this is the way MLB should try to create some sympathy during a lockout:

MLB argues for minor leaguers to remain unpaid in spring training, citing life...

[zambonir]

The timing is especially bad, yeah! Not just in general but because there won't be any spring training at all without them. (Speaking of which, shouldn't AAA pitchers and catchers, among others, be reporting any minute now? Or will "minor league camp" still start later.)

[bkox]

The meeting has ended. Union officials are underwhelmed. MLB made a large proposal (compiling some previous ones) on economics & otherwise. Pre-arb bonus pool went up $5 million, to $15m. Slight increases to CBT thresholds, no changes to CBT tax rates. Players will fully review.

— Evan Drellich ( @EvanDrellich ) February 12, 2022

[bkox]

LOts of info coming here

MLB has proposed limiting the number of times a player can be optioned in a season to 5. The players have proposed limiting to 4, and the players are also concerned about what else comes along with MLB’s proposal to limit to 5. It has other changes attached to it.

— Evan Drellich ( @EvanDrellich ) February 12, 2022

MLB today presented the MLBPA with a calendar: i.e., to start regular season on time, a deal is needed by X day. Not known what specific days/deadlines MLB suggested. Unknown yet if MLBPA agrees with the calendar as MLB sees it. Union has to review it all. TBD.

— Evan Drellich ( @EvanDrellich ) February 12, 2022

As part of MLB’s CBT proposal, thresholds go to: $214m, $214m, $216m, $218m, $222m.

(Previously: 214, 214, 214, 216, 220)

— Evan Drellich ( @EvanDrellich ) February 12, 2022

Tax rates are still 50, 75, 100 for the 3 tiers of the CBT. MLB had previously proposed that if you go over 1st tier, you give up a 3rd round pick: 2nd tier, 2nd round pick; 3rd tier, 1st round

Now: no pick surrrendered for going over tier 1. Same picks given up for tier 2 and 3

— Evan Drellich ( @EvanDrellich ) February 12, 2022

On league minimum salary, MLB made two proposals. One for a flat amount of $630,000 (and teams could pay more if they wish).

Or tiered proposal with an increase in year 3: now, $615k for 0-1 service time, $650k for 1-2 yrs, $725k for 2-3 yrs. Increase is in 2-3: used to be 700k

— Evan Drellich ( @EvanDrellich ) February 12, 2022

[andyb]

Minor league camp is always a couple of weeks later. Normally around the first of March with games starting in the middle of the month.

Of course with the major league players not allowed in camp I imagine there is lots more space in the complex for players to workout.

[andyb]

thresholds go to: $214m, $214m, $216m, $218m, $222m

That is just pathetic. In the previous agreement it went up slower than revenues and that was art of the problem. Now the economy itself has 7% inflation so one could justify going from $210 to $225 million on inflation alone even before you consider what happened in the last CBA.

This and the $15 million bonus pool are just not serious proposals where they are trying for a reasonable compromise. In the last CBA the big win for MLB was this and they got away with it by giving the players stuff that they did not really care about (more off days).

Baseball has a huge existential problem in that it is possible to game the system to not pay players adequately and that leads to competitive balance issues. We should not be happy that the Tampa Bay Rays have figured out a way to win by gaming the system and taking advantage of players and rules. It is a flaw in the system.

[Lucky_Beagle]

I understand the issue with a player being optioned to the minor leagues so often. Flaws I see with a limited number off the top of my head include: Once a player reaches that limit (of 4 or 5 as proposed) he can no longer be brought up and earn service time and an increase in salary. Perhaps the union should be going for something more like once a player is brought up he is guaranteed xx number of days on the roster, or at least xxx number of days of increased pay and/or service time. For the marginal players which is more important actually being in the majors or continuing to earn the salary and time even if they have been sent back down.

A problem I always see with paying some one more if they are a 2nd or 3rd year player as compared to a 1st year player is why would a team keep the 3rd year player and pay him more if he is about the same level of player and cost more. Doesn't football have something where if you keep a "veteran" player at a league minimum salary only so much of it counts against the salary cap? Perhaps MLBPA should look for something similar to help out their "replacement level" veteran p layers be more likely to stay in game.

[zambonir]

Well yeah that is what I'm saying, are they just not going to have the coaches show up until the normal minor league camp or are they going to use this time to work with people throughout the system. And are coaches paid year-round or only in-season? (the field staff, that is).

I realize reforming the CBT helps the players, but the real fight on that stuff is still between the owners.