2020 Phillies Manager Rumors and Speculation

zambonir 2019-10-21 17:59:57 UTC #101

Phillies Nation hasn't broken a story in its life. That's just a repost of Salisbury (including the quote in the headline).

Not sure Salisbury really knows anything though, nor do I think it's about the fans. Speculatively, it just makes sense: Girardi is the youngest guy, the only one with a ring and the only one with a track record of using analytics. Buck has the history with the front office, but that could just as easily be a minus as a plus. Dusty has always seemed like the wild card/insurance candidate.

bigegypt0417 2019-10-21 18:46:05 UTC #102

How is middleton being bullied?

Philsmania 2019-10-21 19:22:52 UTC #103

Letting phan sentiment dictate Harper over Machado, letting phan sentiment to overrule his baseball people on Kapler and letting phan sentiment dictate that they hire Girardi.

bigegypt0417 2019-10-21 19:34:50 UTC #104

Again...how do you know he's being bullied and that wasn't the natural outcome?

bkeich 2019-10-21 19:40:19 UTC #105

Do you really believe that the owners spent $300M to appease the fans. I think we can guarantee that they did what they wanted with the options avaialble at the time.

bigegypt0417 2019-10-21 20:01:48 UTC #106

It's odd to think because certain aspects of decisions align with the fans that means anyone is being "bullied". We hear the stories and formulate our opinions and sometimes it matches and sometimes it doesn't.

zambonir 2019-10-21 20:09:13 UTC #107

Are we really going to argue over figurative, or even hyperbolic language? In Middleton's case, he is the fans, and that's not always ideal but hardly makes him unique. I don't think he can be "bullied," but he does like to put his finger in the wind. He's not necessarily wrong to do that though. Choosing Harper was obviously a blockbuster decision even if it wasn't necessarily the best baseball decision (we won't know that for several years). And most managers and GMs ultimately lose their job for PR reasons rather than actual baseball reasons.

With regards to the manager I don't see how it matters. If he's been "bullied" or overly sensitive to what the fan base wants, that damage is already done - if not by firing Kapler than by refusing to consider a larger pool of potentially excellent but less experienced candidates. Of the three we're actually going to hire I have no real preference and don't think it matters which ones the fans like.

bigegypt0417 2019-10-21 21:16:01 UTC #108

I'm not arguing anything...I'm just trying to understand how picking Bryce Harper over Manny Machado and picking a veteran manager with a track record would be considered being bullied?

Words are important.

zambonir 2019-10-21 21:39:51 UTC #109

9 out of 10 Good Phight contributors want Girardi (one voted for Dusty).

9 out of 10 Good Phight contributors think it will actually be Showalter (one voted for Girardi).

I'm not quite that cynical, I think if they want Girardi they will outbid the Mets, who might not want him anyway.

Philsmania 2019-10-21 22:54:27 UTC #110

Mets fans also want Girardi pretty badly from what I've seen on social media but, yes, the Mets just don't seem to be all that into him.

zambonir 2019-10-22 02:23:34 UTC #111

Have some salt- lots of salt - with these tweets (just perfect they both have typos/spelling errors too)

zambonir 2019-10-22 18:37:05 UTC #112

Zolecki:

Multiple sources said Girardi made himself the favorite among many for the Phillies’ managerial vacancy following an impressive showing Monday at Citizens Bank Park.

The buzz inside the ballpark is that Phillies managing partner John Middleton prefers Girardi...

It would not be a surprise to have an announcement as early as Thursday between Games 2 and 3 of the World Series.

andyb 2019-10-22 18:50:38 UTC #113

All and all I think I am good with Girardi among the three choices. He will be a strong voice and is comfortable with both the analytics and traditional sides. I think a balance with the GM is needed. Someone strong enough to have a serious voice in personnel decisions if needed. I probably rank them Girardi, Baker, Showalter if I had a choice.

EDmuch 2019-10-22 21:28:31 UTC #114

I join Andy. I think Girardi will have the gravitas to tell Klentak “NO” when needed & be willing to take any conflict to Middleton for a decision.

flyers19rw 2019-10-22 21:57:48 UTC #115

Which seems to be what Middleton wants. It’s been reported that he wants to be convinced that any potential path is the route to be taken. It’s not like he’s dictatorial. It’s been reported that he wanted to let Kapler go mid season but was talked off of that ledge. If Klentak, MacPhail and Girardi can’t come to an agreement on a subject, I don’t see where it’s wrong to run it by the owner. After all he is the one that’s signing the checks. He also has sources that he goes to for information that are outside of the inner circle of the Phillies.

zambonir 2019-10-22 22:28:27 UTC #116

I think Girardi is the best long-term option. Dusty's a lot older, and Showalter would be more likely to lose his job under a new front office.

I do still think it's not so great to run things by the owner. Middleton doesn't know anything more about baseball than Giles or Monty did, even if he owns a bigger piece of the club. The real mystery there remains what MacPhail does.

But I don't think there will be any real tension in-season. At the end of the day Klentak still makes the roster (for the most part) and the manager still makes his own calls in-game, even if the numbers say otherwise. You just want them to be on the same page starting out. And Middleton is probably more into analytics than MacPhail, even, which I'm sure is part of why he prefers Girardi to Buck or Dusty.

flyers19rw 2019-10-22 23:45:08 UTC #117

Some people are climbing all over Middleton for being "hands on". Middleton may not know more about baseball than Giles or Montgomery but he does know people that do and will seek their input. This season, he leaned heavily on Charlie Manuel's help. That's not necessarily a bad idea. Would they rather have an ownership group that just sat back and let the good times roll?
Middleton has skin in the game. If he preferred Harper to Machado, why shouldn't he get involved in that decision? IMO, it was the best choice between the two and his personal involvement helped to make it happen.
As I said above, Middleton seems to want his employees to justify their moves to him. If they can't convince him that the move is a good one, then he doesn't accept it. As far as we know Middleton has not rejected the acquisition of any other players and has gone out on the limb for a couple of pieces in Realmuto, Arietta and McCutchen. Someone, be it Klentak, Macphail or Kapler suggested these acquisitions and Middleton bought in on them.
We'll see where the front office goes with time. If they feel that their work is not appreciated, they'll move on. If the owner feels that their services aren't up to par, they'll be terminated. If they stay where they are, then all is well between them.

allentown 2019-10-23 02:22:13 UTC #118

I'd love to have an owner who just sits back, while the good times roll. Unfortunately, it's close to a decade since the good times have rolled, and even back then, the rot on the farm was easy to see. I am not convinced that we've had a management troika capable of producing a winner any time soon. I think Klentak has been the weakest link and if I gave someone an extra year to work things out, it would have been Kapler (assuming the new GM was ok with it), rather than Klentak. I honestly have no idea what exactly MacPhail does, so little available metrics upon which to grade him. We have so many senior advisors and Middleton is so willing to talk to them and weigh conflicting views, that I think MacPhail may be a superfluous layer of management which just constipates the decision making.

zambonir 2019-10-23 02:40:58 UTC #119

That's the main issue, I think. Giles and Monty were the CEOs, with an ownership stake. They hired the GMs, signed off on the biggest decisions, and were empowered to act on behalf of ownership, and also represent their underlings (mostly the GM but also marketing) to ownership. In theory that is also MacPhail's job, but Middleton is doing it himself.

If MacPhail was the one actually doing Klentak's job for him, that would be more justifiable. Friedman is running the Dodgers without a GM right now. The baseball bosses in Chicago and Minnesota are obviously in charge over their GMs. But MacPhail doesn't seem to be a hands-on baseball guy either.

I tend to think meddling owners are always bad, but at the same time, meddling owners often (though not always) correlate with championships. Probably that is also because meddling owners also correlate with high-payroll teams. Best case is Steinbrenner, Mark Cuban, the current Red Sox group. Worst case is Ed Snider (though he wasn't so bad before there was a salary cap) or Jim Dolan.

I think the more subtle problem is that owners only react to the big money, obvious stuff. Like Bryce Harper or Gabe Kapler. Neither Middleton nor MacPhail were qualified to hire the scouting director, or to hire last year's new development director. They still believe in Klentak enough to leave that to him, and also to leave the entire coaching staff in place, so we'll see what this next move does to the mix. If the new manager, pitching coach and hitting coach don't believe in the philosophies that are being instituted by the GM, development director and scouting director, how's that work exactly?

Dirk41 2019-10-23 05:40:05 UTC #120

This is so true