2020 Philadelphia Phillies Season News/Notes/Discussion

[zambonir]

The whole thing is just impossible to manage. For all we know those are both false positives, but it will take two more days of testing to find out. It's also possible they are just the first positive tests of the incubation period, and the players are still to come.

I think it is safe to assume they did have contact, since everyone was at the ballpark yesterday. That will prove to be serious folly if there are more positive tests and now we won't even be able to be sure if the spread is from Sunday or yesterday, though one assumes things were much more strict, distanced and staggered yesterday.

Our coaching staff is very young except for the two guys who have already been sick (Gott with the virus and Price apparently - maybe - not). Hopefully the clubhouse attendant isn't too old/at risk. I would think such factors - your immunity and how you body reacts to the initial exposure's viral load - also affect whether or not you catch, or even test positive for, the virus.

[bkeich]

"We have 1-4 players that tested positive, you guys want to play anyway?

Yea, sure we do."

What idiot decided that the players could make this decision?

Either the Marlins grossly broke the rules or the rules are ridiculous. I honestly dont know which.
At this point I have to seriously think that the Marlins management and ownership has to be held responsible for a ludicrously stupid decision.

Can anyone (who is not working from home) imagine your supervisor calling and saying "We have a few people that tested positive today that you were in close contact with yesterday. You want to come in or not?" NO. NO. Not the employee's decision. Management should not be fined but honestly I would consider shutting down the Marlins organization until they explain why this level of stupidity is acceptable. There is NO WAY that team should be allowed to continue this season. Allow them to return in 2021 after they explain why they should not just be disbanded.

[el-pietro]

What idiot decided that the players could make this decision?

Realistically though MLB should be cancelling games whenever anyone involved with a team tests positive. There was no guidance from the league on cancelling games.
If the Marlins had decided not to play, and then no one else had tested positive they would get hammered for that decision.
There is a lot the Marlins should answer for, their behavour that led to this spread being the main issue, but it should not be down to an individual team to decide if games go ahead or not.

[allentown]

Agree completely on the first two games of series. On the Sunday game, they had to scratch their starting pitcher because of Covid and decided to play. I may be wrong, but get the impression from all of the articles that they used medical confidentiality as an excuse not make it known that they just had a new Covid case, a player who had shared the clubhouse and traveled by bus with his teammates. That is not the same as three cases, where the positives have been isolated and nobody else has symptoms. That's a very active cluster, which continued to blossom for the following three days. Sunday was the height of irresponsibility. That is the day the players voted to play. Anyone in contact, and obviously many were, with the sccheduled SP, at minimum had to quarantine. That should have been, for any rational person, sufficient sign that the whole team needed to quarantine.

[zambonir]

I know MLB is probably spinning furiously, and you can also never underestimate the incompetence of MLB, but I do not think the Marlins players, or even the two teams, were involved at any point in the decision to play the game. MLB made that decision. It was clearly the wrong decision, but in hindsight it was also the wrong decision to play the series at all - they had one positive test on Friday, and their previous opponent, the Braves, also had positive tests before Friday.

But the discussions the players had were merely discussions. They made the mistake of trusting MLB. And not taking any of it seriously enough to begin with, obviously. Their "vote" by group text is not why the game happened, though if they had felt differently, it might have forced the issue. Both rosters could have simply refused to come to the ballpark.

I actually think the Phillies front office is the one that goofed here, more than the Marlins players, because as the home team, and the team putting themselves at additional risk, they could have put their foot down.

Blue Jays series now cancelled.

[bkeich]

Realistically though MLB should be cancelling games whenever anyone involved with a team tests positive. There was no guidance from the league on cancelling games.
If the Marlins had decided not to play, and then no one else had tested positive they would get hammered for that decision.
There is a lot the Marlins should answer for, their behavour that led to this spread being the main issue, but it should not be down to an individual team to decide if games go ahead or not.

I agree with what you say el-pietro.

I cant believe that it is up to the team as to whether they proceed. Simple fact is once a player tests positive they MUST test everyone and (unfortunately) wait the expected period for the test to read accurately. They cannot just ask the players if they want to take the risk, because they will always say yes probably. Either MLB has written a procedure that makes no sense in the case of a positive test or the Marlins decided to just make the choice to play.

Either way it should have been obvious that the next few days would lead to a bunch of positive tests. "A guy has Covid, he was hear all day yesterday spreading it around, no one knew, now we are all going to go sit together and see if we can spread it to everyone".

[el-pietro]

I just don't buy that the league let the Marlins make the decision. They expected them to play. We knew the 4 players were infected before the game, the Phillies knew, so the league must have known. They either indicated that the Marlins should play, or said nothing, and with the lack of actual rules around when a game should be cancelled that means we play until the league says stop.

What I think happened is there was no word from the league to cancel the game and the players/coaches were asking themselves if they should pull out of the game for safety reasons in the absence of a decision from MLB.

[bkeich]

What I think happened is there was no word from the league to cancel the game and the players/coaches were asking themselves if they should pull out of the game for safety reasons in the absence of a decision from MLB.

Then there are some people in the league office that need to lose their jobs also.

I know what would happen. Anyone with an IQ over 80 understands that if you have 29 guys who were exposed to someone that was positive yesterday you shouldnt have everyone all together today and all sit in a confined space together. If this is a surprise to the Philles, Marlins management or MLB's management I wonder how they got their jobs without any common sense.

[zambonir]

It is not up to the teams, let alone the players. The problem is MLB's protocols - testing, contact tracing, their definition of "close contact" - were inadequate, and better protocols, as we are seeing now, are basically unworkable.

What we've also seen is that the players can't be relied on to never break distance while they're at the ballpark. And even if the Marlins or Braves started this by going to a bar, which is definitely one of the worst things you can do, the next time it could just be from a family member or extremely unlucky "essential" errand.

The system was supposedly set up so teams could still play games even if they lost 5 or even 10 players for a while, and teams not playing the same number of games was also inevitable. But now that it has happened both things seem untenable, because one assumes it's gonna happen again.

Like I said, I wouldn't underestimate MLB's incomptence or trust Manfred, but here's what was said about Sunday:

Why the Marlins’ game on Sunday was able to take place after three players were found to have tested positive the morning of the game: “Well I think really what happened was there was testing on Friday and one positive on Saturday. [There was] testing again on Saturday and the three additional positives on Sunday. What then happened under the protocols was we did contact tracing on all four positives. There was, I think, a small number of players who met the [Centers for Disease Control and Prevention] guidelines. They were quarantined. We ordered additional testing. We did symptom checks. We did temperature checks and decided to proceed with the game on Sunday.”

Manfred said that simply being teammates and in the same clubhouse alone don’t necessarily meet the requirements for close contact that would require someone to have to quarantine.

“There’s a distance requirement as well as a duration requirement,” Manfred said.

https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/mlb/miami-marlins/article244530762.html

“All I can tell you is that there was plenty of communication before that game,” Klentak said. “There were others at the league level who knew about the positive test before we did. So the determination was made at that point that it was safe.

Elusive details, inconsistent protocols: Why didn't MLB stop Marlins-Phillies?

[bigegypt0417]

Blue Jays Series now postponed.

[andyb]

2 positive tests apparently.

Gelb adds that it is a coach and a clubhouse staffer, so apparently not a player. Multiple positive tests are not good of course and the athletes may take longer to test positive and show any symptoms since they are in better shape.

[bkeich]

Manfred said that simply being teammates and in the same clubhouse alone don’t necessarily meet the requirements for close contact that would require someone to have to quarantine.

“There’s a distance requirement as well as a duration requirement,” Manfred said.

Because there virus doesnt spread unless you are within 6 feet for an hour right?

Ahh, I bet not.

The simple fact is that if a team has someone test positive the TEAM must be quarantined assuming that player was in the dugout. He spreads it to one, they are in contact, it cascades and in a very, very short time everyone has possibly been exposed. The idea that there is a time element is for a completely different scenario which makes it a very low risk of passing the virus just because you momentarily pass by someone who is positive (and may have virus on their skin, droplets of water near them, etc). If you are sitting next to someone for 5 minutes or 3 hours the chances go up. The situation of guys spending 10 minutes in a dugout together 8 times during a 3 hour period makes it very possible that there are multiple spreads of the disease occurring.

They are trying to make a protocol that defies the logic of the situation by referencing guidelines which do not apply to this situation.

[andyb]

Seranthony has his surgery finally. Cristopher Sanchez added to the 60-player pool also.

https://twitter.com/ScottLauber/status/1288897638088224770

[zambonir]

At this point I feel like the only question is would they consider having a season without all 30 teams, and if so, what's the line? How many missed games before it's not enough, how many teams could they eliminate? Both soccer leagues did this but a tournament is a very different beast.

Otherwise, there's no season. But there might not be anyway.

The way this was supposed to work is actually how MLB did it on Sunday - you lose four players, you replace them, you move on. But that doesn't track with how the incubation and testing actually works. And obviously the definition of "close contact" is highly debatable as well.

How would you like to be Cristopher Sanchez right now?

[andyb]

How would you like to be Cristopher Sanchez right now?

He signed for $65,000 7 years ago. He has every right to be OK with MLB minimum salary pay if only for a few weeks later in the season.

[zambonir]

I am sure that he is absolutely thrilled to be getting the opportunity and the salary but there's a non-zero chance he'll actually pitch for the Phillies in a week or two - which would also be great for him, but right now it also makes him feel like cannon fodder, and also a decision he gets little say in (unlike the AAAA guys who could more easily afford to just walk away, and also wouldn't be walking away from the beginning of a dream).

[andyb]

Gelb on the current situation.

Has the Phillies' season reached a tipping point after new positive tests?

Includes the pretty obvious conclusion that there is no way now to play 60 games. The Phillies would have to play 57 games in 56 days starting Monday so that is not going to happen. I think MLB will just drop entire series and reschedule on the fly if a team is idled.

Not ideal and the Phillies are concerned that their pitchers have not been able to throw really during the past 4 days.

[Austinfan]

Nah, they just told the food processor workers that they weren't going to identify people with COVID, and you could come to work or starve.

At least high paid MLB players got a choice, a lot of people were forced to work in unsafe conditions at low pay.

[Austinfan]

Especially since many players weren't wearing masks in the dugout, so I suspect they were similarly negligent in the clubhouse.

[schillingfan]

A lot of people, which includes MLB players and the Herman Cains of the world don’t seem to take it seriously as highly infectious and deadly. They think it happens to someone else, and don’t u derstand that if someone in a group who are together gets it, most will get it. I also don’t think it sunk into MLB the lead time before you test positive after you’ve been exposed. They assume one positive person, remove him and you’ve taken care of the issue.