2020-21-22 Sixers Season

[bkeich]

At least it didn’t include Matisse and Maxey, but that is just a terrible trade. We got a guy whose skills are in free fall, is proud that he makes no effort whatsoever on defense and is shooting 41% from the field this year. Yea, if you take 30 shots you can average 25 points a game, but you aren’t helping.

I hope I am wrong, I have always liked Harden’s game, but it sure looks like we are getting him after he was a good player. Hate giving up that 2027 First, that might be a high pick.

Hate giving up Drummond. He is a monster and a great backup center.

[zambonir]

You can argue whether or not Harden is - or will remain - a truly elite player, but you can't really argue that he isn't an elite player. Or that he's the second-best player the Sixers have ever had with Joel, as well as the best player in the deal, which is how you always win a trade. And also the best player available in the entire league.

Ben should be the best player in the deal, but he's no less flawed.

An "our problem for your problem" trade was always going to be the most likely outcome. This is an awfully good one. And of course, for both teams (and also as with the Butler trade) the hope is the players will play better for their new teams because they want to be there (for now).

I think Harden also means the Sixers' non-Joel line-ups will be better, even without Drummond.

[gmwannabe]

What would the ramifications have been if they kept Butler and signed him long term?
gm

[VoteForKalas]

Wow, really did not expect this trade to happen today.

I think the Nets win this one, but it will come down to who out of Harden & Simmons plays better for their new team.

Milsap is a throw-in, would have preferred Mills. Giving up Curry hurts, but he is a liability on the court on one end. Drummond was the one that sucks more IMO. Good backup for Embiid with some leadership. We are really small now outside of Embiid and I'm not sure if we will get any rebounds outside of him either.

Keeping Maxey and Thybulle is great news.

If Harden's hammy (say that 5 times fast) lingers like it did last season, our rebounding gets even worse (already bad) and the defense with Harden struggles, this may get messy soon. However, if he can stay healthy and click with Embiid soon, we will be better offensively and have more options. Harden is a good foul shooter as well so the 4th quarter should be less painful to watch.

[zambonir]

What would the ramifications have been if they kept Butler and signed him long term?

In hindsight, it would have likely sent Simmons out of town sooner. And/or there'd be no Harris which is kind of a toss-up considering they'd probably still love to shed his salary.

Butler will eventually be an aging, overpaid burden, and presumably Harden will join him in that category. But Harden's the better player. It's just too bad they didn't get him last year (though Maxey and Thybulle might be on the Rockets if they had).

[zambonir]

One thing implied here that makes Harden come off better: he was just not happy about Kyrie's refusal to get vaccinated (if more because of the missed games than for the overall health issue).

Kyrie Irving’s role in James Harden trade, and is Zion Williamson the next big...

Sixers are lucky Ben gave in on that one or he'd probably still be here (unless they traded him for Kyrie).

[Dirk41]

Remember that Manny will be a Phillie thread from like 16 years ago? This reminds me of the farfetchedness of that, but real!

[zambonir]

It took me a second to realize you meant Ramirez. That one worked out!

If you read this - and I'm not saying this is necessarily a good thing - it's not only not far-fetched, but what was planned all along. Rubin has always wanted Harden here and his interest in hiring Morey (to say nothing of the new team president) stemmed from that, rather than, they hired Morey and he naturally was interested in Harden.

The Sixers acquire James Harden from Nets in a deadline-day trade and end the...

[bigegypt0417]

So Kyle Neubeck is now reporting Harden didn't opt in to the next years 43+ million dollar option. Sounds like there's confidence on both sides that it won't be a problem.

i guess if things dont go well, we'll be talking about a sign and trade this offseason.

[bkeich]

So, technically we traded for less than half a season of Harden. Wow, this might turn out to be the worst trade in NBA History.

So, to keep him I am guessing we will need to

[Squire]

My random thoughts on the Sixers Trade:

1. Thought it was a really good trade and the best possible outcome of the Ben Simmons situation. I'd rather consolidate some assets and get a HOF superstar to pair with Embiid then middling or even up and coming players.

2. That being said, I don't characterize the value of the trade as being only Seth, Drummond and the picks for Harden just because Simmons wasn't going to play for us. Other teams were clearly willing to give us something for Simmons and we foreclosed those other assets for Harden.

3. This isn't the death of the process so much as its the culmination of it. We ended up with two HOF level guys on the same team and even a pretty good supporting cast.

4. I have pretty high confidence that the picks are going to end up being....one very late and maybe one in the middle.
   I'm not that worried about that though I'd also add that we have done a really good job at finding outstanding value from the 20th pick and on in Maxey, Thybulle, Kork, Bassey, Reed, Milton, Joe, etc.

5. See you at the parade.

[bigegypt0417]

That seems a bit dramatic...even if he does decide to not sign here, the sixers will get to be part of a sign and trade but there is also the hope he signs for less money than 43+ million dollars.

The Sixers traded a player who was never taking the court here again for the near perfect compliment to Embiid...they also held on to two very talented young players in Thybulle and Maxey.

[zambonir]

It's fine if he didn't opt in. Maybe even good. The fact that the Sixers are probably going to be paying Harden for another 4-5 years is a much bigger problem (and likelihood) than losing him. There's no way he's leaving Morey and Rubin and Tad Brown (and Meek!) after all this. Like BE said (twice) not a problem.

Even if it did go bad, they only lost players with no future here (except Curry, who was still a modest asset) and would still get players back in a sign-and-trade.

Not sure what anyone wanted the Sixers to do at this point. Make an even worse trade for Simmons, for either worse players, or by giving up more to get a better one? Never mind that a better one doesn't really even exist who was available. Keep Simmons? That just would have led to a Harden trade in July anyway under the same overall conditions.

[bigegypt0417]

Morey Said he wanted a top 20 player in exchange for Simmons and I think he got that...the Harden trade is pretty much a win-win for both sides.

At the end of the day, even if he decides to leave, the sixers will get assets in return.

[zambonir]

The only way he's going anywhere is if he and Joel don't mesh. And Joel's not gonna let that happen. This is his Jimmy do-over, but better.

He can still opt-in until June 30. Probably the Sixers will just sign him to the five-year deal before then, which is what he wants. If he actually opts in and the Sixers don't extend him that would actually be drama (though also not terrible for the Sixers if they had reason to have second thoughts). Little to no chance Harden actually leaves for another team this off-season.

I like the player, i like the trade, and also Morey is far from done (as far as what next year's team will look like) but if Harden did flop, or wasn't here for more than 1 1/2 seasons, would Morey deserve to still be the GM? I'm sure he'd survive (since ownership is all in on Harden too) but Doc wouldn't.

[jimbomill]

this might turn out to be the worst trade

Getting rid of the albatross that is Ben Simmons mitigates it for me. But we all knew Harden has been his own mini-dumpster fire for how he forced his way out of both Houston and the Nets. If he remains an injury concern, or still only matches his stats from the Nets, less than half a season is OK. The trade still would suck, all the same, it would have been better to just cut the albatross and let him go.

But if Harden plays like one of the best 5 players, then that's what we're excited about.

[bkeich]

But he is also shooting 41% from the field and 33% from 3pt range this year overall, those are stats that get you to the G League. I don’t want to repeat myself, but I fear we have acquired a ridiculously highly paid player who has skills in free fall and is obviously a cancer as a teammate.

It is nice to end the Simmons saga, but he is 25 and was a huge asset (in a trade). I fear we made our short term prospects worse at the same time we obviously made our long term prospects worse.

[xogfog]

You are so off base! Harden is not a cancer as a teammate. The situation in Houston was that they gave it every effort to win a title and then broke up the team, Harden was just the last big piece to go and he wanted to go to a winner, what's wrong with that? The Nets situation was not Harden's fault, Irving was the cancer on the team and Durant decided to side with him, Harden saw the writing on the wall and wanted to avoid that dumpster fire. He is on the back end of his career and wants to win a title, that doesn't make him a pariah. Barkley wanted that too. So did Drexler, etc... I'm not going to kill Harden for wanting to win, in fact, I'm thankful that he thinks here is the place to do that.

[zambonir]

Harden is just a normal NBA star. LeBron, Kawhi, Anthony Davis, Westbrook, Paul, Durant, Butler, Paul George. Literally more than half of the 15 best-paid players in the NBA have either forced their way or self-GMed themselves onto a new team at some point. It's the only way you get them.

There definitely seem to be some concerns about Harden's attitude and conditioning - that are pretty much identical to the ones that existed about Joel. Hopefully Harden is not too old - and wants to win badly enough - to change.

And yeah, I think Kyrie is the bad guy here. Doesn't completely excuse Harden dogging it and wanting out so fast, but we would have only gotten Lillard or Beal under the same circumstances, and did get Butler that way. Bottom line, stars are high maintenance, and the Sixers without another star were never going to win a title (unless Ben had become one). If they don't with Harden it will just be a wash.

[bigegypt0417]

How would cutting Simmons be better? Would the next 3 years of cap money go away?

Even if harden doesn't work out, you will get value back in a sign and trade.