2019 Phillies Spring Training Discussion

[andyb]

I might have Dylan Cozens playing 1B about one third of the time in AAA. He might be a better long term fit for the bench than Williams if he can be the backup 1B also. Williams in that scenario is traded of course, as his value is in his everyday bat and that is wasted on the bench.

Bottom line though is I am just not that worried about 1B to want to keep Sean Rodriguez. Unless Hoskins had an injury that would require a DL visit, he simply is not going to sit. And Franco is enough insurance with Walding hanging around AAA in the case of an actual injury.

[julio]

I might have Dylan Cozens playing 1B about one third of the time in AAA. He might be a better long term fit for the bench than Williams if he can be the backup 1B also. Williams in that scenario is traded of course, as his value is in his everyday bat and that is wasted on the bench.

Bottom line though is I am just not that worried about 1B to want to keep Sean Rodriguez. Unless Hoskins had an injury that would require a DL visit, he simply is not going to sit. And Franco is enough insurance with Walding hanging around AAA in the case of an actual injury.

I agree about Cozens.

The organization emphasizes flexibility. It seems to me that making sure that at least some of your outfielders (and Cozens - big guy, big power - is an obvious candidate) should be able to handle 1B on a backup basis is just common sense - as is giving your backup catcher some time there. Makes more sense to me than, for instance, trying to work Scott Kingery into the lineup by moving Franco on a day Hoskins is out.

[David_Criss]

Julio - thanks for the updates. I missed the March 10 reassignments. And, this is what I get for doing to many things at once, I meant Brantley is the odd man out and Grullan should be catching everyday at AAA with MCBride as his backup/mentor.

PC - thanks for the info on Hoskins interview. Hope he is right.

For me it keeps coming back to Quinn. He just can't stay healthy. In 4-weeks the Phillies will be forced to add him or lose him. I'd rather lose Altherr at this point than Quinn.

Altherr is 28 showed us in 2017 what he could be. He didn't exactly hit the cover off the ball after his demotion last year in AAA, but he is a great defender and can play all 3 positions.
Quinn gives you the emergency SS, too. He is 25 and has the speed that can be a weapon off the bench
If it truly is down to Rodriquez and Altherr - to me the answer is easy Altherr remains and the bench OF depth is reexamined when Quinn is ready to be activated.

Of all the NRI outfielders brought in, I thought Adams had the best shot, if there was a shot, for any of them to make the team.
Rodriquez has been awful this Spring. If it was 2016.... so with Rodriquez and Altherr you have two players who have been good, have the potential, but neither has shown it. Rodriquez is 33 not on the 40-man. Altherr is 28 is a switchhitter and is on the 40-man. Quinn, if healthy beats them both.

[David_Criss]

Tonight's lineup just posted.
Rodriquez is starting at 2B, so they are still giving him a look.
Kingery starting at 3B and Franco at 1B and Altherr in RF.

[andyb]

It is good they are giving Franco a little 1B time as he is the obvious first replacement option there. While he did not play any 1B last year and only has 9 major league games there, he has a fair amount of minor league and winter league time there.

Part of flexibility is having 2 or 3 options at every position, not just to give starters off days, but to provide some flexibility for in-game maneuvers. Like Carlos Santana at 3B last year. Flexibility is a good thing, though it should not sacrifice too much offensive production. That is why it is nice for the starters to have some flexibility to play another position rather than just the bench player (i.e. Kingery - have him stick to the IF rather than adding OF reps to his repertoire since I think I want Williams and Quinn playing in the OF before Kingery).

[julio]

That is why it is nice for the starters to have some flexibility to play another position rather than just the bench player (i.e. Kingery - have him stick to the IF rather than adding OF reps to his repertoire since I think I want Williams and Quinn playing in the OF before Kingery).

Agreed... and this is why I mentioned Knapp as a possible backup at 1B as well... because as of now, I might rather see his bat in the lineup at 1B, with Franco at 3B, than put Franco at 1B and Kingery at 3B. This could change, if Kingery makes adjustments to major-league pitching, but until/unless that happens... As it stands, I see Kingery as the backup 2B, and if necessary, backup SS - but I don't want him in the lineup at a corner, at the expense of a better bat.

[zambonir]

Breen thinks they might go with Rodriguez, since he can play 8 positions. If that's the case not sure his bat matters. I certainly wouldn't keep him to play 1B though.

One last Phillies roster prediction | Extra Innings

To some extent it does make sense to just move on from Altherr regardless of who the fourth spot is. Easier to find a trade partner now (or at least see his full salary gone from a waiver claim). Rodriguez wouldn't be around long either, though he would presumably have to clear waivers and accept a AAA assigment once Quinn returned.

[andyb]

Altherr's one advantage is the ability to play CF when Quinn is out. I want to see more of Herrera before I deem him an everyday starter as he was pretty mediocre there defensively last year. If Herrera struggled in April, it would allow them to at least platoon Altherr on a L/R basis if they wanted to before Quinn was back. I'd prefer that to playing Kingery in CF.

I was kind of alluding to Z's point that Altherr is probably going to be lost anyway at some point, so hanging on to him for a few weeks does not do too much. I guess hanging on to anyone is good protection against an April injury, but that is not worth too much. I also have a feeling that Haseley might be ready enough to at least be an injury replacement in the second half of the season if needed.

[julio]

Breen thinks they might go with Rodriguez, since he can play 8 positions. If that's the case not sure his bat matters. I certainly wouldn't keep him to play 1B though.

Well, I can play eight positions, too... badly.

I guess my issue is that with a four-man bench (one of whom is the backup catcher), the guys on that bench are going to pinch-hit, relatively frequently. Sean Rodriguez is OLD (he'll play at 33 this season, if he plays), therefore likely declining - and managed a staggering .582 OPS the past two seasons combined (OPS+ of 57). He's an awful hitter, and likely to get worse - and if he's one of three guys on the bench who can pinch hit (assuming that Knapp will be held back most of the time "just in case"), and Kingery is one of the other two guys... we basically have two useless pinch-hitters plus Nick Williams on the bench. Vince Velasquez becomes our second-best pinch-hitter.

And... we KNOW that Kapler is going to use pinch-hitters, because he's going to use lots of relievers. I don't see much point in keeping a bench guy - even a bench guy who is "versatile" - if the guy's bat is such that we'd be just as well off letting our relief pitchers bat.

[Lucky_Beagle]

Well put Julio, If the guy can't hit why is he needed on the bench. I also want someone who can hit and would be ok on defense more than a good defensive player and terrible hitter.

[xogfog]

I wonder if they would consider giving Cozens some 1B work next offseason. He would be valuable if he could back up 1B and play OF.

[julio]

I wonder if they would consider giving Cozens some 1B work next offseason.

They could give Cozens some 1B work this season, in AAA. There is nobody else in the organization who needs first-base time in AAA for development purposes (well, unless you want to groom Mitch Walding as a backup corner infielder). As it stands, Matt McBride is likely going to be playing first for the Ironpigs, and he's going to be 34 years old in May. There's simply no cost to giving Cozens reps there.

[zambonir]

I don't disgree but if they put Rodriguez on a four-man bench he won't be there long. And all the other options, while young with upside, were nonproductive last year too.

[David_Criss]

Kingery can easily back up SS, 2B and 3B, so why would they keep Rodriquez over say Walding who is already on the bench and can play 1B and 3B? Kingery and Walding both have, albeit limited but, OF experience too. We are talking the 25th man, not a starter, not a major impact, so why go with Rodriquez over someone already on the 40-man?

[allentown]

But Altherr has been good offensively in Philly in the recent past and isn't yet old, although he also isn't young. Didn't the team learn its lesson last year: a 4-man bench featuring guys who are ciphers on offense and play many positions inadequately are not a plus. There's certainly no future in Rodrigues and likely no present either. It's been a while since he put up an OBP above .300 and last years OPS was pathetic, and he was negative dWAR. He had one season of slightly positive dWAR, but is consistently negative for his whole career -- so his carrying skill is that he can hurt a team defensively at more positions than just about any other bench player.

[David_Criss]

I also remember Velasquez being a pinch hitter and pinch runner more than once. 8 relievers just seems crazy, but Kapler likes guys to pitch to one batter.

I remember attending a game in St. Louis in the early 80s where, I think it was John Stuper came in to pitch to the right handed hitter. After he was out he went to leftfield and the left fielder was lifted so a new arm could face the lefthanded hitter. Then Stuper came back to the mound and pitched two more innings. There are ways to let pitchers face more than one batter.

[andyb]

Didn't the team learn its lesson last year:

Not so sure. Getting Cabrera was emphasizing offense in the utility position and that did not work either.

I am heartened by the comments about mostly sticking with a set lineup this year. Defensively and more often in the batting order. Even Kapler said he might not change the batting order for every pitcher so players could get more comfortable in their roles. They announced that Cutch would lead off where I was really thinking they would rotate Cesar in against certain pitchers.

The more the lineup is set, the less we need the flexible bench players. As long as you have one infielder and outfielder that can play 3 positions each, more flexibility is a little overrated. Half the team could probably play 1B defense as well as Howard did the last 5 years.

[zambonir]

But Altherr is going to be released or traded in three weeks. Walding is going to be sent down in three weeks. That's the only reason Rodriguez is even on the table, IMO. There's a case to be made for just trading Altherr and letting Walding focus on getting ABs, see if Rodriguez is useful, and if not, he's in Allentown or off the team soon enough.

Of course the whole conversation could also be delayed if they put VV in the bullpen temporarily and send down Rios, or whoever was gonna be #8, and have a five-man bench for the first two series.

I still don't really believe Rodriguez is how they'll go. That's just Breen's theory. Doesn't seem like he has an actual read on Klentak's thinking. And since it's Quinn's roster spot Altherr is the natural replacement, all else being equal.

It also wouldn't be nearly as big a deal to carry a poor bat on a four-man bench if one of your other two offense-first-players (Kingery) wasn't himself a poor bat (for now).

Personally I think the big strike against Rodriguez is we already know he's playing with a torn meniscus. So whatever chance he had of staving off age and improving compared to last year is that much more slim.

[julio]

But Altherr is going to be released or traded in three weeks. Walding is going to be sent down in three weeks.

Walding has already been optioned to AAA. Altherr may (or may not) need to be moved in a few weeks. That assumes: 1) Quinn is actually able to come off the DL - e.g., no setbacks, no other injuries while getting into playing shape; and 2) nobody else in the outfield comes up injured - e.g., Herrera doesn't have a hamstring problem, nothing happens to McCutchen or Harper.

If you move Altherr now to "make room" for Sean Rodriguez, and then any of the above "bad things" happen...who's your backup outfielder? Cozens, presumably - but he needs to play regularly to hav any chance of getting his strike zone judgment under control, which is the difference between his being a bench player and a monster.

[zambonir]

I know Walding was already sent down but they could call him back up, especially if Hoskins is banged up. (Unless they added Brantly and played Knapp there).

I agree Altherr seems like the most valuable asset. Agree about Quinn too but at some point he actually will come off the DL and Altherr will no longer be around to replace him next time.

And of course if Herrera got hurt they would probably play Kingery or Williams in CF, Cozens would come up for the bench.

Where did you read Rodriguez actually requested his release? I read that he can, but not that he had (unlike Romine and Butera).

In the end this is less about the players than the make-up of the bench. Kingery is a RH hitter who can play all of the IF and OF but can't yet hit. Williams is a LH hitter who can only hit and play the corners, really. Quinn rounds those two out ideally because he can hit and play SS and CF. If the priority is defensive utility you are choosing between Altherr, an OF, and Rodriguez an IF (Walding an IF but can't play SS).