2019 Phillies Spring Training Discussion

[xogfog]

Quinn is such a quandary. Do you risk losing Altherr for a player than hasn't been able to stay healthy for five minutes? I would love to have his speed on the bench for pinch running chances, but I'd like to see him in AAA for a month to see if he can stay healthy for that long.

[zambonir]

Yeah, at some point you might just move on from Quinn but Altherr (older, inconsistent, injury-prone himself) is not the reason to do it.

Agree there is no reason to put these fringe IFs on the 40 and Rodriguez doesn't play SS either I don't think. But the guys in camp may be no better or worse than anyone else if we're just talking glove (Alcides Escobar just got released).

[David_Criss]

If they do decide to go with a second infield utility guy, I would imagine it would be Walding over adding Rodriquez and I would think Gosselin would be ahead of Rodriquez if they were to add an NRI.

[andyb]

I wonder if the absolute lack of real competition for any jobs (3B was never real, CF has only one real option in Herrera now, Kingery was probably never given a real shot at 3B or 2B, backup catcher was Knapp's to lose) has contributed to the team's lackadaisical play of late. There seems to be less competition for jobs this Spring than any I can remember.

[zambonir]

I just think they like Rodriguez. He was Kapler's teammate, good comeback story, versatile veteran and - I stand corrected - can play SS, though I doubt very well given his current age.

I think Walding could get the nod as a 5th bench guy. I doubt they will shoehorn anyone in as the 4th bench guy (which right now would mean losing Altherr or sending down Williams).

Was there really competition for any jobs last year? The catchers were set, nobody was competing with Crawford or Franco, LF/2B/1B/CF were locked and Altherr was pencilled in ahead of Williams in the RF platoon. Kingery made his splash was all.

[nycphils]

Kingery is just god-awful. I’d rather see Sean Rodriguez or someone else and send Kingery down...if he’s on the roster need to wonder about people covering for their mistakes instead of doing what it takes to win.

[andyb]

Let's not get too enamored with Sean Rodriguez. .167 average and sub-600 OPS in both 2017 and 2018. Over 300 plate appearances so not a small sample. And Kingery is better defensively and a faster baserunner. Maybe Kingery should play every day in AAA because he needs the development, but he is probably still much better than Rodriguez even if he does not get that development time in.

[zambonir]

I was gonna say, Sean Rodriguez isn't actually better than Kingery. He's almost below the Mendoza line in OPS, not just average! Of course we already know he's playing hurt. I wonder if he'll just get the clean-up surgery once the possiblity of a major league salary goes away.

But Kingery is basically taking the old Bruntlett/Juan Castro/Wilson Valdez/Pedro Florimon spot. Not sure that's what is best for him, and we also got a little spoiled by Andres Blanco and Pedro Florimon hitting so well (on bad teams in meaningless games). But he's a perfectly fine 25th guy on the roster for now.

Probably fair to be concerned by his spring training numbers though. If he was supposed to arrive refocused and in better shape and ready to adjust, it hasn't happened yet.

Of course if there was actually a competition for the 3B job based on ST numbers, nobody won it.

[David_Criss]

I wouldn't mind seeing Kingery play everyday 2B in AAA.

[tom81]

I would. We are in win now mode and they really didn’t add a decent backup middle IF to the roster so Kingery provides the best chance of winning now. I’m ok with potentially stunting his development somewhat now, it makes more sense than last year.

[zambonir]

It's not hard to find a "decent back-up middle IF" though. There's probably several of them still unsigned who can either out-hit Kingery or have more defensive utility (and experience in the role). That role isn't doing him any favors. To me the best bench even with Kingery would have a C, one OF, Kingery as a super sub/pinch-hitter (who can also play OF) and true middle IF who can also play CF, like Florimon.

The way it is now they'll have to PH him and double-switch him with Franco just so they still have a back-up SS available (and that would also make him the back-up 1B). At least until Quinn is back.

He also hits from the same side as Franco (and Segura) so he's of minimal use to gain any platoon advantage on off-days. Which they also don't seem inclined to give to Cesar, and he's not gonna play LF or CF either.

I hope he thrives and gets ABs but it doesn't seem set up for it to happen. Unless he actually does become the 3B.

[David_Criss]

The problem with having 8 bullpen arms is you are very limited on the bench. You have to have a backup catcher, which only leaves 3 spots. Seems like they want Kingery to be the super sub Ben Zobrist type and learn it at the Major League level. To me this is cruel.
2015 Lakewood 66 games at 2B
2016 Clearwater .293 BA, .360 OBP., 3HR, 26 SB - 94 games at 2B
2017 Reading .313 BA, .379 OBP., 18 HR, 19 SB - 69 games at 2B
2017 LeHigh Valley .294 BA., .337 OBP., 8 HR, 10 SB - 58 games at 2B 4 at 3B and 2 at SS

So after two consecutive years of knocking on the 20-20 door and playing exclusively at 2B, save 6 games, he is thrust into the Major Leagues to learn a brand new position and expected to continue to hit . IN 2018 he played 119 games at SS, 10 at 3B, 7 in the OF and only 4 at 2B.

And now he isn't hitting in Spring Training. I hope they haven't messed with his confidence. I am excited to see him as the everyday 2B in a year or two. I think he would be better suited to learn the utility role at the AAA level or to regain his confidence at one position at AAA this year.

Ryan Flaherty is out there. Gosselin and Rodriquez are out there if you want a cheap utility infielder who isn't going to hit a ton, but can fill in from time-to-time buying Kingery some more time.

[andyb]

I think they are happy with Kingery's defense at all 3 infield positions. I know it is not ideal for his development, but he is also probably better than the middle infield options we could sign. Sometimes you make a decision to help the big club that is not ideal for an individual player. I think they still see him as the post-Cesar 2B. Just not this year.

[phillychuck]

I haven't seen this posted--Phillies have released LHP's Edward Paredes and Jeremy Bleich; and infielders Trevor Plouffe and Gregorio Petit. Drew Anderson and James Pazos have been optioned to LV.

[Squire]

James Pazos and Drew Anderson being optioned to LHV

Phillies release Trevor Plouffe, Gregori Petit, Edward Paredes and Jeremy Bleich

[andyb]

More Fangraphs positional rankings. 4th at Catcher. 8th in LF. 21st in CF (projections are not that kind to Roman Quinn though one could argue the sample of data of him being healthy is pretty flawed).

2019 Positional Power Rankings: Center Field

[zambonir]

While I do think it would be best for Kingery to get more regular ABs in AAA given the changes to the roster I also think he'll be fine, and if he isn't fine, it will be because he's not good enough. I know a rushed or disruptive development process can mess with a career but there are also plenty of players who come up too soon and actually hit, or are forced to change positions and actually hit. And as much as it seems like he was kept up simply because he had the contract, I don't really believe the Phillies dugout and front office would have kept him up, or would continue to put him in this role, if they thought he wasn't handling it well, even when the results aren't there. They have a lot invested in this guy, even if it's not literally that much $.

For all the super-sub talk, he's basically following a pretty standard rookie path, especially when blocked - gonna have to spend 2-3 years as a bench player waiting for his chance. Galvis did it too (and had to change positions immediately. But since he's a Latin American SS instead of an Anglo 2B we just assume that's easy for him). Obviously we want Kingery to hit a lot more than that, and Galvis also shuttled back and forth to AAA. I hope he has a good half-season. If he's still not hitting they will have to do something both for his sake and to upgrade the bench on what is now a big contender.

[andyb]

I also think playing CF in Spring Training was a little bit of a reaction to both Herrera and Quinn being out. If that happened Kingery might be the 3rd option out in CF if Altherr were not on the team.

I don't think the Phillies intend that though. A season of 30 starts at 3B, 10 at SS, and 10-15 at 2B does not have to kill his development. Maybe his 2B defense will suffer a bit, but he can focus on that next offseason if he looks more likely to play there regularly. He helps the major league club more than anyone they could find on the scrap heap, especially knowing we have a full 40-man roster and we probably will need some spots for relief pitchers over the course of the year.

[David_Criss]

With the cuts this morning, it really does prove that little to no competition existed in Spring Training. No matter how bad Velasquez or how good he does in two hours, he makes the team over Anderson who could not have had a better Spring.
In the bullpen: Nicasio and Arano despite having Spring ERAs of 9.82 and 51 respectively remain in camp and beat out Davis and Pazos while NRIs Paredes, especially and Martin out pitched all 4 of them. Technically Martin and Romero are still in camp, I guess. Why even bring in Paredes and Anderson? Seriously they couldn't have thrown better and still wont make the team.

Left in camp:
18 pitchers - 27 position players

SP: Eflin, Pivetta, Eickhoff, Velasquez, Arrieta, Nola, Romero
BB: Hunter, Rios, Dominquez, Neshek, Robertson, Alvarez, Morgan, Neris, Nicasio, Arano
Guessing: Hunter and Eickhoff to DL or extended Spring Training. Arano and Martin sent to AAA

Inf: Sequra, Hoskins, Franco, Kingery, Hernandez
NRIs still in camp: Gosselin, Rodriquez, Cenelo, Ngoepe, Listi

OF: Williams, Cozens, Altherr, McCutchen, Harper, Hererra, Quinn
NRIs still in camp: Moniak, Haseley, Adams, Robinson

CA: Realmuto, Knapp
NRIs still in camp: Brantley, Buetera, Grullon, McBride - probably trying to decide which one to keep at the AAA level

The only competition I see is which AAAA catcher is stashed at LeHigh Valley.
Does Gosselin or Listi start on the team if VV is in the pen the first couple of weeks and.or if Hoskins is limited? Hope that doesn't happen and I would guess Walding is summoned.
Who are the fourth and fifth outfielders: Adams, Robinson, Cozens, Williams, Altherr?

[Squire]

OF Adam Haseley reassigned to minor league camp
OF Dylan Cozens optioned to LHV